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Old 02-10-2011, 14:11   #121
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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Cane Corso Italiano is the proper name for the Italian Mastiff. Some people get confused because Neopolitan Mastiffs are also often called Italian Mastiffs, and as the two are cousins they look very similar. The Neo is much bigger and more jowly though. These two breeds are the last descendants of the Roman Molosser, a mastiff breed which was bred specifically for warfare and gladiatorial games for close to a thousand years. The Neo is much closer to the true Molosser, Corso are an evolutionary branch which was created when Roman farmers began using the Molosser for a farm dog. They were bred to hunt, herd, and protect the farm. They are one of the last true coursing breeds, and will happily pull down large game, herd animals, tow a cart, and protect your farm and family. They became almost extinct during WWII when the allied bombing campaign in Italy and the general warfare there caused most of them to be exterminated. The breed is now coming back, both in Europe and the US, although it's often adulterated stock in the US. They are incredibly intelligent and loyal animals, I'm a big fan. They are not your average dog.
Truly a handsome animal...are they game?
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Old 02-10-2011, 14:18   #122
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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Speaking of money and yacht clubs has got nothing to do with it...I don't belong to one and my boat probably cost about the same as yours...

Looking like you don't have money may help sometimes...but to the average thief in many places....they ain't too bright and their worry about higher punishment for carrying a weapon and using it doesn't deter them either.

Brains ...money...appropriately...all words till someone sticks a knife or bullet in you... yes...I've avoided confrontation most of my life...but until you are at the dangerous end of a weapon...either end...words are just that....
Sadly, regardless that you may have cashed in all of your asset's to be able to afford a boat to call your home and although it may be your only material possession, even the mere hint of "having more" can be an invitation for thieves or others! to say nothing of a kindness extended being mistaken by many as a weakness and this in many cases includes extended family whom seem to feel entitled.
In the Philippines, my brother in law of whom I am "very" fond, jokingly told me that the average Cano in the PI has ATM tattooed on the forehead.
Maybe it's just my own personal experience, however, having lived and worked both there and Thailand, much as I am fond of the Philippines, I never lose the the feeling that we are always being scrutinized and assessed as to what we can hand out irrespective of whether we can afford it or not, if that makes any sense; while I'm sure many may disagree, in Phuket we feel quite the opposite.
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Old 02-10-2011, 14:20   #123
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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Sadly, regardless that you may have cashed in all of your asset's to be able to afford a boat to call your home and although it may be your only material possession, even the mere hint of "having more" can be an invitation for thieves or others! to say nothing of a kindness extended being mistaken by many as a weakness and this in many cases includes extended family whom seem to feel entitled.
In the Philippines, my brother in law of whom I am "very" fond, jokingly told me that the average Cano in the PI has ATM tattooed on the forehead.
Maybe it's just my own personal experience, however, having lived and worked both there and Thailand, much as I am fond of the Philippines, I never lose the the feeling that we are always being scrutinized and assessed as to what we can hand out irrespective of whether we can afford it or not, if that makes any sense; while I'm sure many may disagree, in Phuket we feel quite the opposite.
true...
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Old 02-10-2011, 14:43   #124
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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A fallacy. Corso's notoriously dislike water and will not swim, though like most dogs they love wading and playing in the surf. This is because they have zero fat content and will sink like a stone. However they are pretty mellow and seem to love boating. My guy does great aboard, even in the rough stuff. He loves a dinghy ride more than almost anything, and is really pretty salty. I know another couple who liveaboard with one as well. There are actually a number of persistent myths about the progeny of the corso's name, one of which has it associated with the word corsair, because ancient italian pirates(think the Cilicians who obducted Caesar) were notorious for using Molossers in boarding actions.
Only problem I've had sailing with my Corso is that he needs to wear mitts when it gets rough out or he claws everything up with his massive talons while climbing around. He's incredibly strong and can gouge grooves into teak that look like a bear sharpened it's claws there. But with the mitts on he can't hang on as well and so he doesn't like them. We're getting there. Here's my guy hangin with the kids on our old boat when he was still just a big puppy.
Just to stay sorta vaguely on topic, I think this a security method which works great for people with a limited cruising range who intend to stay in areas where traveling with a dog isn't a problem. I'd much rather have my mastiff than any kind of spray, wasp or otherwise. He follows the kids around and would protect them with his life from anything from a snake to another dog to a person or persons, however unlikely the latter might be. Sure beats hell out of getting arrested for foolishly carrying an illegal weapon, and IMHO probably a lot more effective anyway. He is alarm, phsychological deterrent, and defensive weapon all in one. And he's soft and cuddly too!
Fallacy? Minaret, don't get me wrong mate, cracking photo's! and your love of your evidently favorite breed is commendable.
I have no knowledge of the breed other than what I've been told.. IMHO A family/boat guard dog doesn't have to look like a Bear to be effective. I sailed with a German Shepherd Lab Cross who loved the water so much, it was a job to keep her out. She would actually jump in and swim with a mooring line in her mouth to wherever.
While perhaps not as menacing as your beauty, she could look very mean in a distinctive "don't even think about coming near me posture" Additionally she didn't sink like a stone or have to wear mitts on massive talons.
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Old 02-10-2011, 14:46   #125
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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A fallacy. Corso's notoriously dislike water and will not swim, though like most dogs they love wading and playing in the surf. This is because they have zero fat content and will sink like a stone. However they are pretty mellow and seem to love boating. My guy does great aboard, even in the rough stuff. He loves a dinghy ride more than almost anything, and is really pretty salty. I know another couple who liveaboard with one as well. There are actually a number of persistent myths about the progeny of the corso's name, one of which has it associated with the word corsair, because ancient italian pirates(think the Cilicians who obducted Caesar) were notorious for using Molossers in boarding actions.
Only problem I've had sailing with my Corso is that he needs to wear mitts when it gets rough out or he claws everything up with his massive talons while climbing around. He's incredibly strong and can gouge grooves into teak that look like a bear sharpened it's claws there. But with the mitts on he can't hang on as well and so he doesn't like them. We're getting there. Here's my guy hangin with the kids on our old boat when he was still just a big puppy.
Just to stay sorta vaguely on topic, I think this a security method which works great for people with a limited cruising range who intend to stay in areas where traveling with a dog isn't a problem. I'd much rather have my mastiff than any kind of spray, wasp or otherwise. He follows the kids around and would protect them with his life from anything from a snake to another dog to a person or persons, however unlikely the latter might be. Sure beats hell out of getting arrested for foolishly carrying an illegal weapon, and IMHO probably a lot more effective anyway. He is alarm, phsychological deterrent, and defensive weapon all in one. And he's soft and cuddly too!
While a police trained attack dog may be a threat to an uneducated assailant...NO dog is much of a threat to me if I have my typical sharp folding yard knife or a gun. I've been around big and trained dogs all my life...my son has a 185 pound malamute (yeah...they are big babies...but they remind me how they are just flesh and blood too)

I would hate for you to have your pet hurt in such an incident with a knowlegeable attacker.

I just have to add...when are some of you gonna get it??? When knowlegeable leathal force enters your world....all these silly deterents aren't gonna EVER beat MR. Smith and Wesson....that's why guns were invented....
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:01   #126
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

Most of us I think aren't concerned with the threat of "knowledgeable lethal force" because it's not only very unlikely, but being prepared to deal with it is far more likely to cause you grief than anything else, as has been discussed ad nauseum here. I think a good dog provides security adequate to prevent or deal with most situations you have any likelihood of actually encountering. And if you're gonna tangle with a corso, better leave the knife and bring a gun. They are well known for killing people, and mine could easily break your arm like a twig with one bite. If someone with a machete attacked him my money would be on the dog. They were bred to kill bear and boar, they have very few nerve connections in most of their bodies and feel no pain. You would need a swift and very lethal response to keep from being severely maimed, and meanwhile what's the dog's owner doing while you deal with it? Not nothing, I assure you. In short, adequate for anything but an intruder armed with a gun. And for that, compliance is probably your best bet most of the time. You will most likely be outnumbered, outgunned, surprised, or all of the above in such a scenario. Not worth the risk...
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:02   #127
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

But trained attackers attacking cruiser boats I think are VERY rare.

I would bet screaming like a like girl, yelling, turning on your lights sounding an air horn etc., are as effective as anything else 99% of the time in the cruiser world. And that other 1%, well it isn't going to end well regardless.
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:05   #128
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

PS - I wouldn't want a "pet" that is trained to attack someone on my boat! That basically means I am in charge only as long as the dog allows it!
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:16   #129
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

My last dog was half malamute and half rottweiler. He was huge and savage, and weighed about 180 as well, but he was nothing compared to my Corso. These dogs are not normal. They are unnaturally strong and fast, which is why they are replacing the rottweiler and doberman in the schutzhund world. My male corso weighs 125 and would eat any 180 lb. rotty for breakfast. They look more like a lion or panther in their musculature and bone structure than a dog. Most people instantly freeze up as soon as they see him, it can be a problem. Corso's need special training techniques because shock collars and electric fences dont work on them, they just can't feel the shock. They were bred to be unable to feel pain for longer than most dog breeds have been around. Only other ancient mastiff coursing breeds can be compared, such as cane canario, or the dogo. I honestly think if you shot my dog he wouldn't even notice right away, unless it was with a gauge. I once wrecked my truck and watched him fly through the windshield from sitting in the passenger seat. Not a scratch, and he seemed to think it was fun! A few weeks ago a Freisian (if you know what that is) kicked him in the head, I was sure he would die. I heard it from 100 yards away like a bell being rung. Tiny bit of blood from his lip, no swelling, just fine. Kept hassling the horse anyway...
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:26   #130
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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PS - I wouldn't want a "pet" that is trained to attack someone on my boat! That basically means I am in charge only as long as the dog allows it!
"Trained" to attack someone means they only do it when you tell them to. Otherwise it's just an aggressive dog. "Bark and hold" is the first step in bite training. The dog is trained to threaten an attacker and hold him in position without biting. The whole point of training is to have an animal that is under control. My dog is super friendly when it's appropriate, and super aggressive when that's appropriate.

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Old 02-10-2011, 15:40   #131
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

We went out last night and the bar tender was talking about a fight at her other bar the night before. She dropped both large guys on the floor using wasp spray. She said it took only a few seconds and they were rolling around on the floor, then one started throwing up. The police just hauled them off. These were mad drunks according to her.

As to attack dogs, as scarry as they seem, anyone who has been trained to fight a dog will be able to take any dog (ANY DOG) out. That's why in really secure areas you will see more than one dog working as a team.

A small dog can be very effective as the dog alerts you to what could be going on. If the bad guy hears a small dog, they already know their cover is blown and no longer have any surprise advantage.....and usually leave. That's if my Min Pen barks, but if my 138 pound white german shepard that is almost 6 feet long barks, they move a little quicker.
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Old 02-10-2011, 23:46   #132
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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We went out last night and the bar tender was talking about a fight at her other bar the night before. She dropped both large guys on the floor using wasp spray. She said it took only a few seconds and they were rolling around on the floor, then one started throwing up. The police just hauled them off. These were mad drunks according to her.

As to attack dogs, as scarry as they seem, anyone who has been trained to fight a dog will be able to take any dog (ANY DOG) out. That's why in really secure areas you will see more than one dog working as a team.

A small dog can be very effective as the dog alerts you to what could be going on. If the bad guy hears a small dog, they already know their cover is blown and no longer have any surprise advantage.....and usually leave. That's if my Min Pen barks, but if my 138 pound white german shepard that is almost 6 feet long barks, they move a little quicker.
FYI This Year

HEADLINE
A Cane Corso Mastiff brutally kills a four-year-old Brooklyn boy with the dog turning on anyone who tried to come to the child's aid.

Plse' see link below

Cane Corso Mastiff dog brutally kills 4 year-old Brooklyn boy
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Old 02-10-2011, 23:59   #133
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

Yes, sadly such incidents are not uncommon with this breed or any other of the large dog breeds. Poor ownership occurs everywhere and unfortunately these breeds tend to attract irresponsible owners. I wasn't trying to suggest that this is a great breed for anyone cruising, it isn't for most, for one thing they're too large for most boats. Just that as I said in an earlier post, I think a good dog is sufficient security for most situations. That could be any dog big or small. I happen to like mine big. If you are planning on resorting to something extremely iffy like wasp spray and are that concerned about security, perhaps a dog might be a good alternative consideration. And a well trained one an even better.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:52   #134
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

In my ignorance I've never heard of a Halligan Bar but according to the report in the NY Times on the deadly attack on the child, this was one of the tools the firemen had to use to get the dog to let go..It looks like a good piece of kit for a boat! Check the link if interested.

Firefighter Tools: Halligan Bar | eHow.com
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:56   #135
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Re: Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

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Yes, sadly such incidents are not uncommon with this breed or any other of the large dog breeds. Poor ownership occurs everywhere and unfortunately these breeds tend to attract irresponsible owners. I wasn't trying to suggest that this is a great breed for anyone cruising, it isn't for most, for one thing they're too large for most boats. Just that as I said in an earlier post, I think a good dog is sufficient security for most situations. That could be any dog big or small. I happen to like mine big. If you are planning on resorting to something extremely iffy like wasp spray and are that concerned about security, perhaps a dog might be a good alternative consideration. And a well trained one an even better.
It is not a dogs fault it is the irresponsable owners fault..if your dog is a Laborder and you see ducks in your front yard is it the dogs fault if it kills the ducks if you let it outside?..its the dumb ass owners fault! you have got to be a responsable owner..otherwise you need to get a shitsonu or a poodle..same thing with a gun..is it the 2 yr old kids fault for shotting his 7yr.old friend or the dumb ass that left the gun laying around..DVC
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