Transporting gas?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Every marina we've ever rented a seasonal slip at over the last 10+ years has had a policy prohibiting re-fueling in the slip. Non of them had fuel services, so lost revenue was not a motivator. For them it was 100% a liability and safety issue. Non of them specified Gas vs. Diesel. Just a flat "Not Allowed".



They did not prohibit carrying jerry cans or dinghy tanks down the dock. The rule was specifically prohibiting 're-fueling'.

I have run into the same thing, however just today a big Sportfisher took on 960 gl from a land based big fuel truck, they ran at least 100' of hose to the boat to do it down the dock.
Just thought that interesting, seems rules differ, and enforcement varies.
Same marina I've seen a couple of big power boats get bottom jobs, both times they get hauled and blocked in the parking lot, and power washed, a LOT of bottom paint comes off and goes down the sewer drain.
I didn't expect that in South Fl

[thinwater]

Personally, I find the statements that it is "just $100" a little offensive. I think we need to weed that sort of thinking out of the forum. Money can be tight.

Yes, hauling 80 gallons of gas is significant and requires significant logistics and precautions. I wonder if the OP would be better airing his question on a power boat forum. They may have actually though this through. I can see why some folks would find this alarming. One thought is that there may be a town dock where this is OK. The watermen often have tank in the back of the pickup truck for gas or fuel. He can probably use it if he avoids busy times and does not linger. But they aren't jerking around with little containers.

I fuel (gasoline) at the dock all the time. I don't go to the fuel dock some years. But that is because I have a sail boat and most days only burn 1-2 gallons--just enough to clear the jetty. I simply bring a jerry can with me every few trips and use a shaker siphon. It's not the money; it's easier than the fuel dock bogie and I don't have to mind their hours. I spill no more than I might at the dock. I could wait until it was down, but I like to keep it full to reduce breathing and so that I am ready for longer trips.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Attachment 152317

Of course! I have six 5-gallon jugs for a total of 30-31 gallons. My tank is 53 gallons, so I can easily do 2 diesel trips and it's worth the time and money, in my opinion. I go to a nearby gas station and fill up all the jugs with diesel. Works great and I've done it a bunch of times. Would anyone not recommend it in my case? I'm curious. And definitely will listen to any input from others.

Yep, wrong color for diesel.

I have been known to "top off" my tanks but I have to drive to the station, fill up four 5 gallon (yellow) jugs, drive to the marina, put the jugs into a dock cart roll them a couple hundred yards and deal with the ramp angle at low tide and then try to pour the fuel into the boat without spilling. This seldom happens and I ruined a pair of jeans trying.

Since I don't know how much fuel I can take, I either end up with extra or have to drive back to the station for more. I usually end up with extra that I have to store at home until the next time.

Counting the fuel for my truck and my personal time, I wonder if it's worth it. And of course I had to buy the jugs in the first place.

[a64pilot]

I jug fuel on deck for the range, and when I find a Marina that wants $4 a gl, I don't have to buy there, I tanker cheap fuel when it's available.
I carry 50 gls on deck, which just about doubles my fuel capacity.

I'm in the camp that you can only have too much fuel if your on fire. I got that way from flying, with fuel I have options, low fuel my options don't exist

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Personally, I find the statements that it is "just $100" a little offensive. I think we need to weed that sort of thinking out of the forum. Money can be tight.

Yes, hauling 80 gallons of gas is significant and requires significant logistics and precautions. I wonder if the OP would be better airing his question on a power boat forum. They may have actually though this through.

I find that the liveaboard/cruising community seem to be the most extreme about safety, and often think that their experiences are the only tried and true methods of boating. The recreational boaters are less extreme about safety, although all concern is not thrown out the window.

If you consider the amount of time that liveaboards/cruisers spend on their boat, the odds of going boom are significantly higher. There's more opportunity for disaster when you spend 90 to 100% of your time on your boat. So I can see where their extreme concerns are valid.

However those of us who are recreational boaters, and can't afford to liveaboard full time, have to find other avenues to do what we love. Safety is still a number one concern, but there are ways of doing things in a non-conventional way. I don't see the need to pay double gas prices if I can transport gas to the dock from the gas station on the corner.

[Zven]

Thanks for all the thoughtful input. For my part, I am just in the process of preparing my motorboat for a long journey with extra fuel containers... So this is all very interesting.

What are your opinions about small electric portable fuel pumps?

I mean for diesel transfers.

I would think for anyone who regularly transfers diesel, this is going to a lot easier and less messy than pouring, sucking, or even manual pumps.

Here is one that costs around $10 on eBay and pumps 12 litres per minute... diametre 38mm:



Another design, same price:



For 5 times the price you can get a more powerful and professional-looking model:



This one is kind of cute... but will probably run out of batteries sooner than you can say "Full tank":

[transmitterdan]

Well if you had seen the fire this week at the marina on Lake Texoma you would understand that the risk greatly outweighs any possible cost savings. The exact cause of that fire is under investigation. The rumor mill is going wild and I won't repeat them here. But 20 boats lost, thousands of gallons of fuel in the water, millions of $ lost but thankfully no lives lost. This marina is close to a National Wildlife Refuge which shares the same waters. So it's an economic and ecological disaster.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/07/19/f...texoma-marina/

Such fires are more common than some want to admit. each of us has his/her own experience which informs our opinions. No amount of saving on gasoline prices can possibly justify the tremendous risk involved in transferring large amounts of gasoline using plastic or ungrounded metal jugs. it is not a snobbery thing. It is just too great a risk being forced on your neighbors for too little gain.

Fueling diesel from a tanker truck or from jugs is a lot different. The main worry there is spills which have to be managed no matter where it's done. My issue is with large amounts of gasoline, it's volatility and the lack of appreciation some have for its flammability. That's a deadly combination.

[thinwater]

A number of posters have suggested shaker siphons. Cheap (<$10), fast, easy to use, non-sparking, and spill proof with any reasonable care. I tested a bunch of methods for PS magazine, these won hands down, and they are what I use now. I wish I had known how well they worked years ago. Stick one end deep in the filler pipe, stick the shaker end in the can, give it a few shakes, and wait. To stop, lift the shaker end. Wait a few moments for the outside to drip off, then walk the hose into the tank. Coil it into a small bucket for next time. Very neat.

The normal precautions will always apply.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

A number of posters have suggested shaker siphons. Cheap (<$10), fast, easy to use, non-sparking, and spill proof with any reasonable care. I tested a bunch of methods for PS magazine, these won hands down, and they are what I use now. I wish I had known how well they worked years ago. Stick one end deep in the filler pipe, stick the shaker end in the can, give it a few shakes, and wait. To stop, lift the shaker end. Wait a few moments for the outside to drip off, then walk the hose into the tank. Coil it into a small bucket for next time. Very neat.

The normal precautions will always apply.

Not sure what these are... Got a link to a representative sample?

-Chris

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by thinwater

A number of posters have suggested shaker siphons. Cheap (<$10), fast, easy to use, non-sparking, and spill proof with any reasonable care. I tested a bunch of methods for PS magazine, these won hands down, and they are what I use now. I wish I had known how well they worked years ago. Stick one end deep in the filler pipe, stick the shaker end in the can, give it a few shakes, and wait. To stop, lift the shaker end. Wait a few moments for the outside to drip off, then walk the hose into the tank. Coil it into a small bucket for next time. Very neat.

The normal precautions will always apply.

The posting system seems to have obscured some of your post so I quoted it all I think.

I am sure you have identified the best method of transferring fuel from a high place to a lower one.

We still seem to have an inability to connect on a few points.

Can someone transfer gasoline in their slip without causing a fire? Yes.

Can they do it with zero risk of fire? No.

What is the quantified risk? No one seems to know.

Who is being asked to pay for this risk taking? Everyone else who has a boat at that marina. Plus other boat owners who's insurance rates are affected. Plus the environment itself is at risk. And even lives are at risk.

I cannot square the risk with the seeming small economic benefit. It is not an elitist view in my mind. It is a practical position based on my perception of the risk/reward equation. Anytime you have a situation that calls for significant shared risk amongst many for the benefit of the few (or the one), I rely on the great philosopher Spock.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

With gas at $3 a gallon at the fuel dock, does anyone fuel their boats by carrying fuel to the dock?

The boat I'm looking at has two 40 gallon tanks, and with eight, 10 gallon refillable containers I could carry fuel to the boat and save $80 each time I refuel.

I wouldn't do it long distances but the marinas around here are usually just blocks away from a street side gas station. It's how we fill out power boat that's on a trailer.

and we wonder why marinas think we are cheap and still expect support services

[Hoosiersailor]

I just read all this and I am still trying to understand why there is an increased fire risk from fueling from a portable plastic 5 gallon jug compared to pulling up to a fuel dock and fueling from the pump.

Spills maybe, but even then I have to think the risk is pretty minimal and not really anymore than spilling from the nozzle at the pump.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

A number of posters have suggested shaker siphons. Cheap (<$10), fast, easy to use, non-sparking, and spill proof with any reasonable care. I tested a bunch of methods for PS magazine, these won hands down, and they are what I use now. I wish I had known how well they worked years ago. Stick one end deep in the filler pipe, stick the shaker end in the can, give it a few shakes, and wait. To stop, lift the shaker end. Wait a few moments for the outside to drip off, then walk the hose into the tank. Coil it into a small bucket for next time. Very neat.

The normal precautions will always apply.

I've been using them for years. Best thing since sliced bread for this purpose.

[tinysailor]

Originally Posted by Hoosiersailor

I just read all this and I am still trying to understand why there is an increased fire risk from fueling from a portable plastic 5 gallon jug compared to pulling up to a fuel dock and fueling from the pump.

For combustibles (Diesel) the major risk is static. This is actively managed at service stations in Australia via the grounding and earthing systems.

When filling approved diesel jerry cans, it's imperative they are filled with when placed on the ground and not when they are sitting in the back of a ute.

Dry hot windless days are also a major watchpoint for static buildup.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Zven

Thanks for all the thoughtful input. For my part, I am just in the process of preparing my motorboat for a long journey with extra fuel containers... So this is all very interesting.



What are your opinions about small electric portable fuel pumps?



I mean for diesel transfers.



I would think for anyone who regularly transfers diesel, this is going to a lot easier and less messy than pouring, sucking, or even manual pumps.



Here is one that costs around $10 on eBay and pumps 12 litres per minute... diametre 38mm:







Another design, same price:







For 5 times the price you can get a more powerful and professional-looking model:







This one is kind of cute... but will probably run out of batteries sooner than you can say "Full tank":

Years ago I set up a system where we would carry three 60 gl plastic drums of fuel on the swim platform of a Sportfisherman to extend range, I used a facet electric pump and pumped through a fuel filter. I bought a new fuel cap and drilled and tapped for a nipple fitting to prevent any water intrusion and fuel spillage.
It worked fine, but if possible I believe gravity transfer to be better.
I'm thinking myself of two 50 gl fuel bladders on my sailboat for that Pacific crossing if we ever get there, 50 cause they would then be completely filled, or completely empty, as I've heard not much worse than a half filled fuel bladder on deck in bad weather.