Transporting gas?

[a64pilot]

Re grounding.
Back to that aircraft thing, first we ground the aircraft, then the fuel truck, then finally bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft to prevent any possible spark from that.

But, how do you ground a plastic fuel tank, to a plastic boat?

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...I'm thinking myself of two 50 gl fuel bladders on my sailboat for that Pacific crossing if we ever get there, 50 cause they would then be completely filled, or completely empty, as I've heard not much worse than a half filled fuel bladder on deck in bad weather.

That's about 700 lbs of fuel on deck. Is that a good idea? Isn't diesel fairly available at most ports? Even with a generator do you need that much fuel load?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

That's about 700 lbs of fuel on deck. Is that a good idea? Isn't diesel fairly available at most ports? Even with a generator do you need that much fuel load?

Three plus week passage, but no I hope I would not need it all, can't really see a scenario that I would anyway, but like having the options it brings. Maybe 50 is a more logical number?
I assume closer to 800 as the bladders and gear to secure them weigh too, but that's only about like having four men on deck, except the load is way better distributed than it is on two feet. Weight would not bother me at all, maybe cost of two bladders would though.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not sure what these are... Got a link to a representative sample?

-Chris

Just Google "shaker siphon." Amazon is good. I have this one.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hopkins-F...&wl13=&veh=sem

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Re grounding.
Back to that aircraft thing, first we ground the aircraft, then the fuel truck, then finally bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft to prevent any possible spark from that.

But, how do you ground a plastic fuel tank, to a plastic boat?

The plastic and hoses in systems designed for gasoline, including jerry cans and funnels, is just conductive enough to bleed static charge. I wrote specs in a past life. For example, white PVC pipe will build static, but PVC conduit will not. The deck of the boat itself may not be grounded if washed clean of salt, but the static should be bled off by the hose, funnel, and can. They should remain in contact during fueling (the jerry can MUST contact the funnel). Jet fuel is actually one of the more troublesome fuels, because the flash point is near room temperature.

I had a fun accident investigation years ago. A recycle tanker was pumping from a landscaping service trailer. They had mixed a little gasoline with a lot of diesel, creating a mix with a flash around room temperature. (diesel flashes very high, and normally gasoline flashes so far below freezing, that the fumes inside the tank are above the explosive limit and will not pop.) This is one reason adding gasoline to diesel in winter is a problem; the mix is more prone to explosion than gasoline, but diesel boats and vehicles are not designed for that.

Mistake 1. The driver grounded to the vehicle next to the trailer, not the trailer. The trailer was sitting on tires and the neap was on a wooden block. It was insulated from the ground. He said "the cable would have been in the way."

Mistake 2. A PVC bushing had been installed in the wand assembly. It should have been aluminum.

Mistake 3. The hose was septic hose, not fuel-rated hose. It was not conductive.

Mistake 4. The wire in the hose should have been pulled out and bonded at both ends for back-up. It was not.

Mistake 5. The driver did not dissipate charge after walking away from the vehicle by taken off his gloves and touching the feeder of the trailer.

It was a very dry day. When I walked across the the lot and noticed I got a shock when I touched my car door. When the driver climbed the trailer to see if it was MT he had gloves on. When he got to the top of the ladder, he took his (PVC) gloves off and put his hands on the edge of the manway into the tank.

Bam. His hands provided the spark. Although his gloves were seen going 30 feet in the air, he was not hurt. Can't say the same for the tank.

It took 5 mistakes. Sometimes it only takes one, but using the proper procedures and equipment provides redundant safety. This is why you use gasoline rated hose etc.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

and we wonder why marinas think we are cheap and still expect support services

uhhhhh.... my $250 a month plus electricity costs billed at a higher rate than they pay isn't support enough???

The tanks at the fuel dock are accessed and filled the EXACT same way that the 7-11 on the corner is. There's no reason why the gas should be twice the price. I can understand if you had to haul the fuel to a remote area, but when you have the same city streets leading from the marina to the 711 there's no reason to double the price.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

uhhhhh.... my $250 a month plus electricity costs billed at a higher rate than they pay isn't support enough???

The tanks at the fuel dock are accessed and filled the EXACT same way that the 7-11 on the corner is. There's no reason why the gas should be twice the price. I can understand if you had to haul the fuel to a remote area, but when you have the same city streets leading from the marina to the 711 there's no reason to double the price.

TC, is it truly double the station price, or is that hyperbole? A 20% increment is pretty common, but I've never encountered double.

I think that would piss me off too!

I suspect that the reputation of sailors as cheapskates that SB reports comes from transients coming in for fuel, not from residents, fw that's worth.

But none the less, I still feel that jerry jugging and refueling with GASOLINE in the marina is selfish and risky for others. Diesel, not so much.

Jim

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

TC, is it truly double the station price, or is that hyperbole? A 20% increment is pretty common, but I've never encountered double.

I think that would piss me off too!

I suspect that the reputation of sailors as cheapskates that SB reports comes from transients coming in for fuel, not from residents, fw that's worth.

But none the less, I still feel that jerry jugging and refueling with GASOLINE in the marina is selfish and risky for others. Diesel, not so much.

Jim

If its $2 at the pump, its at least $3 at the dock, if not more. Its usually at least a dollar or more per gallon.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

If its $2 at the pump, its at least $3 at the dock, if not more. Its usually at least a dollar or more per gallon.

OK, so "double" was a bit of an exaggeration. One possible solution is to fill your jugs, carry them to the boat, leave the marina and do your refueling at anchor where no one else is at risk if you screw up. That would remove a lot of my objections to the practice and still save the dollars that you are worrying about.

Jim

PS In much of the world, we'd be really happy at those prices. Most marinas around the east coast of Oz charge around 1.60 AUD per liter just now. That's about 4.80 USD per gallon. There are a few places that only charge a few cents/l over servo prices, but they are rare.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I suspect that the reputation of sailors as cheapskates that SB reports comes from transients coming in for fuel, not from residents, fw that's worth.

You ever been told you had to stop filling your water tank and leave the fuel dock because there was a fishing boat waiting to come to the fuel dock and it is going to buy $500 in fuel and you only got $30?

[MikeFergie]

90 % of Africa you will have to carry fuel to your boat guys. There is no such thing as a fuel dock. All of the outboard guys need to fill their own boats this way.

We have 60-70 power boats at our club and with manual drums etc there has never ever been a fire to my knowledge. I have been her 17 years.

Most people have to fill 25 -30 liter plastic containers and they go to sea like this with6-10 containers per boat.

We pay about 80 us cents per liter here in Mozambique

[transmitterdan]

A recent marina fire was caused by transferring gasoline from a boat. 17 boats lost, most sank in the slip after burning to the water line. It was theorized earlier in this thread that gasoline was not involved in this fire but it was.

http://www.kxii.com/content/news/Hig...436840283.html

Transferring gasoline to/from a boat in a slip with many other boats nearby is dangerous. Don't do it.

[danielamartindm]

Hey, if you're willing to do the work, eighty dollars is serious coin. But be careful. If marinas really want to discourage such practices, bringing their fuel prices down would be a good start. Personally, I'd be reluctant to transport that amount of gasoline and risk the attendant dangers of spills and ignition. I don't even like to transport a five gallon can of it for my lawnmower in my trunk, as my car smells like gasoline afterwards.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

... I'm in the camp that you can only have too much fuel if your on fire. I got that way from flying, with fuel I have options, low fuel my options don't exist

Indeed!

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, so "double" was a bit of an exaggeration.

So this weekend gas was $1.99 at the road station.

We paid $3.26 a gallon at the fuel dock. 45 gallons was nearly $150, vs the $89 I could have paid carrying my own.

That $61 could have bought at least one spare fuel filter.