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View Poll Results: Who has been
offshore 500 nm 1 6.25%
500 nm for a minimum continuous 72 hours 10 62.50%
experienced boat failure (rigging, vital electronics, engine, shipping water) 3 18.75%
capsizing, knock down, roll over, accidental gybe while 500nm or more offshore 0 0%
electronic failure 1 6.25%
fire at sea 0 0%
required medical attention beyond and above that onboard vessel 1 6.25%
vessel swamped or sunk or not coming back up ater capsize or roll over 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-07-2014, 21:10   #31
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Polls apparently don't work on mobile app. Am I missing something or should I just STFU?
I found out the same thing... But if you press your option/menu button you get "web view" and it loads same as laptop
Otherwise....STFU. ) )
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Old 12-07-2014, 21:52   #32
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

Not to ding Richard5 but it is clear this poll is confusing and unclear in its purpose.

However there is a vast intellectual capital on this board and if we put some effort into it I think we could create a poll that would allow a person to assess their capability to make multi-week passages.

The questions have to be clear and have to be of an "assessment" type - I am think an instruction that say "Evaluate yourself on a 1-10 scale on the following questions with 1 being low and 10 being high"

Debating the questions openly in forum may be useful prior to publishing but in the formation stage it might be better to collate and affinitize them.

Some sample questions -

- I can safely handle my boat in sustained winds of 40 knots or greater
- I understand what affects sea state and how weather may affect wave height and frequency
- I understand storm tactics and have prepared appropriate storm fighting devices
- I have successfully used vhf, hf, and satellite communications and know which method is appropriate to use in a given situation.
- I understand and can make underway repairs to my boats charging and energy storage systems
- I understand and can make underway repairs to my auxiliary engine's systems (electrical, cooling and fuel)
- I understand my boats rigging and could effect temporary repairs while underway if necessary
- I understand hull breach risks and have made suitable preparation to repair the hull, seacocks or other penetrations underway if necessary
- I understand my boats tankage system for fresh water and have made provision to ensure I don't run out
- I understand boat evacuation issues and have prepared suitable safety equipment to abandon the boat safely if required
- I understand MOB recovery issues at sea and could effect an MOB recovery if necessary.
- My crew understands how to effect an MOB recovery of me if I go overboard, even if I was injured
- I understand navigation, navigation methods and have prepared adequate navigation systems to complete my journey
- I understand preferred passage routes, why they are preferred and why they may be seasonal
- I understand weather from a macro and micro sense. I the theory of weather prediction and why different parts of the world are dominated by different weather patterns
- I know how to get weather information for my planned journey on a real time basis and how to interpret this weather
- I am confident when faced with unplanned weather I can alter my route or take steps to minimize the impact of the weather system
- I am confident I can evaluate the complete mechanical condition of my boat prior to departure and have an honest assessment of her condition
- (If solo) I have made short solo passages (<3 days) and understand the long term implications of sailing solo handed and am not relying on sleep deprivation tactics to successfully complete my passage
- I have evaluated the assistance or burden my crew/passengers will place on me as a skipper and am confident I can perform all duties for a successful passage
- If I am the only "capable" crew on board I have made a plan for my passengers to successfully complete the passage or leave the boat if I am incapacitated.

Not all questions would apply to any one sailor (of course) and you don't have to be a "10" on all (or any questions) - When the poll goes up it would be an individuals prerogative to click any answer they like with maybe "If you think you are >5" click the answer."

Post you additional questions here or PM them to me - I'd be happy to collate and post (for a little debate) prior to launching the survey.
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Old 13-07-2014, 04:43   #33
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by blackswan View Post
.......... Our mistakes over time teach us to prepare and train well for the worst and hope for the best. ........
Each of your errors taught you something new and added to your own hard won knowledge.. It can't be taught but must be experienced. ............
Certainly some wise observations here from Blackswan and it's recognized that knowledge is gained from our mistakes.
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Old 13-07-2014, 05:13   #34
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Interesting observation, but sometimes the "mistakes" can simply be a function of the higher risks associated with your marine career. ..........
I imagine that both Blackswan and Pelagic would be among those seasoned sailors who have gained from their experiences and have not treasured their mistakes as stories of bravado to share ashore.

When I stated that my hope was that we not esteem our most experienced sailors as those that have made the most mistakes, I was speaking of other characters that we have all met. You know the guy too! He wraps his tattered sail after being towed the last leg into port and raves about his great adventure. He and his boat were tossed about for days during the passage that he had selected during poor weather that was easily avoided by the less hearty. He was knocked down twice while others, less bold, had already reefed. He could not start his engine at the inlet and was swept into the rock jetties, thus requiring the tow. He doesn't actually maintain his engine because he is independant, self-reliant and he can always sail!

Prudent sailors that cruise extensively do make mistakes and they learn from them. These mistakes and misfortunes are expected and dealt with regularly. I would simply ask that we don't honor the idiots like the captain in Longfellow's "The Wreck of the Hesperus" who said, "Come hither, come hither my little daughter and do not trimble so, for I can weather the roughest gale that ever the winds did blow".
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Old 13-07-2014, 05:47   #35
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

Is the purpose of the poll just to show how scarily you can sail?


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Old 13-07-2014, 07:12   #36
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
Who has been...

Please self identify. The rest of you, STFU...unless you have positive anecdote to add. It is all too easy to criticize without substantive experience.

I apologize, apparently one is only to vote for one occurrence. Apparently it is the nature of the poll but not my doing. Feel free to add text relating to multiple conditions as it may apply.
I was wondering what this poll is all about to begin with.... Especially the terse suggestion to "STFU" if you have don't qualify to answer.

You might get more answers to your poll and less comments if you explained why you wanted this information or what is the benefit of the results....

Also your poll only allows one answer to the questions, which means that if someone experienced more than one incident at sea, they couldn't indicate it.

Like many have previously stated, I am not sure that the answers to your survey actually count that much for experience either...

The very fact a Captain may not have had any of those incidents could indicate an experienced and prudent captain, who had avoided those things throughout his sailing career by doing it all right.
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Old 13-07-2014, 08:20   #37
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

IFIDTTAPTTMTSTFU= I find it difficult to take a pole to tell me to shut the F up.
BIYLYCSIUYA=But if you like, you can shove IUYA
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Old 13-07-2014, 09:07   #38
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

I'll take Atoll's poll: 3, yes, yes, 2. Dan- each of those questions could be a thread on CF.
I absolutely agree that some skippers court disaster while sailing. Was out on the bay yesterday while a race went by in their 30 footers. Watched an Erickson do a flying jybe and come back and almost broach about 5 minutes later. I'll keep my old cruising (and hopefully safe) ways thank you.
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Old 13-07-2014, 09:35   #39
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
I'm pretty sure that with a bit of effort, a more polite wording could have been found to introduce this poll.
Second paragraph put me right off.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops View Post
Makes you think, "why answer"?

Coops.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
Hmm..... 'having logged over 70 thousand miles among the rocks, shoals and inlets during a span of more than fifty years without mishap, I'm inpolitely asked to "shut up" because I answer "no" to all and I am totally without experience. 'sounds like you get your marriage counseling from those with the most divorces!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
you missed out~ how many days have you gone without sleep on passage?
~have you ever had to deal with a psychotic crewmember on passage?
~times been completly without power and unable to start engine?
~lost all electronic navigation and had to make landfall by conventional
methods.
~times on passage having to deal with a serious illness like dengue or
malaria.etc..............
Priceless... And +1

This was as far as I got.... didn't have time to quote everybody with similar worded opinions...
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Old 13-07-2014, 13:45   #40
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

Wow I almost can't qualify for this poll at all. I'm such a noob, I'm guessing. But then I saw engine failure. While the engine could still be started and would sort of run on two cylinders, it would die at idle sometimes too. So I sort of, kind of qualify on that one by rebuilding my diesel myself. But I've only been coastal sailing otherwise. Boring girl I know.

I did go up the mast this morning, by myself, while on the hook. I'll count the bruises tonight.
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Old 13-07-2014, 18:22   #41
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Interesting observation, but sometimes the *"mistakes" can simply be a function of the higher risks associated with your marine career.

I can truthfully answer yes to all of them. *

Have saved and been saved..... *
Have shattered both ankles leaping from a barge back to tug after reconnecting *towline..5 days to get to hospital..
..survived major ER electrical fire in a storm half way between Tokyo and Seattle.
...Numerous broaches in the 70 & 80's when delivering larger sailboats *long distances worldwide.

In my 20's & 30's I often worked offshore on Salvage tugs....purposely heading into danger to help stricken ships.

My other career was yacht and ship delivery at a time when storm avoidance was not so easy.*

Luckily no one ever died under my command but I know others doing the same things, who were not so lucky.

My only claim to fame is that I have never *"accidentally" run aground!

Today.. with the same events....operator error is far more often the common reason and 'mistake' ... rather than lack of available situational awareness.

We have a lot more tools and aids at our disposal.
Pelagic, it sounds to me like you have some hard won experience that I am sure has made you a good skipper to sail with.

In 2012 I returned to my home country (Australia after leaving in 96') to continue my professional maritime career. My previous work had been with charter yachts, deliveries and small super yachts worldwide.*
I had to retrain for the oz tickets and I've now been back at sea for one and half years on the oz coast. I have found the country as a whole to be a different place from the one I left. Risk assessment, health and safety rules abound and the number of tickets you need to even get in the consideration pile for a job is almost silly and very expensive.

My learning curve has been steep and rapid (as you know) commercial maritime is a different world from yachting with its own set of dangers and procedures.
Initially I went to sea on a PSV for 3 months but then I was lucky enough to be picked up by a company that not only preaches safety (on the brochure) but practises it on the ground where they will actually stop the job on anyones say so. I am learning that zero lost time injuries are possible with the right attitude and mindset.*
However the experience has been the key, the courses and tickets alone did not made me a better seaman. My work mates have been patient with me and the rest I have managed to work out for myself, after all going to sea ain't rocket science.

Pelagic wrote the phrase "situational awareness", for my part all of those courses and the experience gained on the job can be summed up in those two words. If we all have and then maintain our situational awareness then pretty much everything can be foreseen and the rest is up to chance which no one can predict.
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Old 13-07-2014, 18:45   #42
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Wow I almost can't qualify for this poll at all. I'm such a noob, I'm guessing. But then I saw engine failure. While the engine could still be started and would sort of run on two cylinders, it would die at idle sometimes too. So I sort of, kind of qualify on that one by rebuilding my diesel myself. But I've only been coastal sailing otherwise. Boring girl I know.

I did go up the mast this morning, by myself, while on the hook. I'll count the bruises tonight.
I've always been and will continue to be a noob. Its not the type of mistakes or how far offshore you make em, learning from them is the key. Sailorchic you underestimate yourself, going up the mast solo is an exercise in seamanship
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Old 13-07-2014, 19:16   #43
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

Y,Y,Y, the rest are No..
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Old 13-07-2014, 20:09   #44
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

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.....It is all too easy to criticize without substantive experience.
I dont really buy into that Richard5.
We learn from others all the time..... The good, the bad....and the ugly.

Speaking of ugly...You dont need to be a cruise ship captain to criticise the master of the Concordia.

The biggest "mistake" any sailor can make is to become complacent about their abilities or the lessons that can be learned from others.

Also I prefer to use the term analyze vs criticise when discussing honest mistakes, however I do hold commercial mariners up to a higher standard than pleasure boaters.
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Old 13-07-2014, 20:40   #45
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Re: Poll-Sailing Experience

Maybe the OP's just wanting adventure stories to include in fiction.

Richard 5, 2nd paragraph did for me. Tell us why you want the data, or if you prefer Ex-Calif's idea. To what purpose would the data be put?

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