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Old 19-04-2009, 07:17   #136
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"Liberal" would be sending a few cruise missiles into the pirate villages.

Right wing, would be a massed ground invasion, beheading of the locals, crucifixions and so on.

Left wing, would be Social Enquiry reports and putting all the pirates on probation.
MoonlightShadow, you've been watching too many re-runs of "Blackhawk Down"
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Old 19-04-2009, 07:54   #137
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The substitution of disparaging, abusive, or defamatory name calling is but a crude substitute for reasoned, rational argument.
I suppose it may be the only recourse left to the shallow propagandist whose position lacks a factual basis.
In any case, such language is neither convincing, nor NICE.
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Old 19-04-2009, 09:09   #138
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A Friendly Reminder...

Just a reminder to our newer members, who may not have been here long enough to understand how Cruisers Forum is run, and to our older members, who know better...

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Old 19-04-2009, 09:24   #139
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Left wing??????? Thats only quasy Left Wing!

Left Wing would offer all the pirates migration to a civilized western country and a lump sum payment and never ending support for their families and 13 generations of kids.


<--- note for some members of CF. Some of the above writing may have been slightly in jest. Please look up 'Jest' in the dictionary
Yes, sorry Mark. I bow to your superior knowledge of liberalism.

Blue Soveriegn: I did read Col. Charles Beckwith's book about the Somali operation, but, from memory, it differed quite a bit from what was portrayed in Blackhawk Down, which I have only seen recently. It may be my memory playing tricks on me (it does at my age -so my kids tell me). He kinda predicted what would happen, but maybe that wasn't too hard for him to see.
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Old 19-04-2009, 11:43   #140
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Just a reminder to.....................our older members, who know better...
Too right. I hope Moonlightlefty and MarkJTrotsky are listening - yeah, you folks should know better by now
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Old 19-04-2009, 21:13   #141
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The pirates were set free because under Dutch law they could not be held at sea under the circumstances in which they were captured.

NATO Lieutenant Commander Alexandre Fernandes, speaking on board the Portuguese warship Corte-Real, said: "Nato does not have a detainment policy. The warship must follow its national law.
They can only arrest them if the pirates are from the Netherlands, the victims are from the Netherlands, or if they are in Netherlands waters."

France 24 | Dutch commandos rescue hostages, new vessel seized | France 24

Double Dutch: Commandos capture Somali pirates and free 20 hostages ... but release the bandits because they're not from the Netherlands | Mail Online
What a load of crap - there's international law to cover this. See UNCLOS:


Article105
Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft
On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.
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Old 19-04-2009, 22:15   #142
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Never disagree with a Dutch bicyclist...

Having tried to cross a few roads in Amsterdam I would not want to cross a Dutch warship. They would probably confuse me to death with civil rights arguments.

But seriously, the pirates lost their weapons (expensive) and no one got hurt.

We probably need an international court to try these pirates.
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Old 19-04-2009, 23:37   #143
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But seriously, the pirates lost their weapons (expensive) and no one got hurt.

A couple of rifles expensive, You have got to be kidding...
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Old 19-04-2009, 23:38   #144
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MarkJTrotsky are listening - yeah, you folks should know better by now
Ouch! That hurt like an axe to the head...

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Old 19-04-2009, 23:54   #145
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Old 20-04-2009, 09:06   #146
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Now Canada has done it...let the pirates go. Oops I guess I should say "alleged" pirates.

Canadian, British, U.S. vessels foil pirates in Gulf of Aden
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Old 20-04-2009, 09:38   #147
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Piracy is not new. The problem of ending Somali piracy is not complicated. To end piracy you must kill off the pirates. It's been done before. Somali privacy will continue until this is done. The US constitution allows the Feds to issue Letters of Marque. I gather that Blackwater is looking for new contracts. Let them buy a few boats and, while the seafaring nations of the world wring their hands over the "pirate problem," the Blackwater boys will kill off the pirates. Problem solved.
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Old 20-04-2009, 09:53   #148
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Yes, well, that is a little simplistic keelbolts, IMHO. Just killing off people is just plain simple mindedness of people who don't want to look at or deal with the underlying problems. Again, IMO.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be dealing with the pirates as they are caught in a legal way that doesn't allow them to continue on as they have been. But untill the underlying problems have been dealt with the problem will continue.
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Old 20-04-2009, 10:52   #149
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Piracy is not new. The problem of ending Somali piracy is not complicated. To end piracy you must kill off the pirates. It's been done before. Somali privacy will continue until this is done. The US constitution allows the Feds to issue Letters of Marque.
Not since 1856, when the Paris Declaration effectively abolished privateering. This was expanded by the Hague Convention of 1907.

Anyway, privateering is not directed against pirates, it's directed against the merchant ships of a country with which you're at war.

Attacking a merchant ship with arms on the high seas is a crime. It seems to be somewhat unclear under the Law of the Sea how to prosecute this crime, but I don't think it's reasonable to just let pirates go just because you can't work it out. I would think that it would be pretty straightforward for states with merchant ships in the area to issue authorizations to states with warships in the area authorizing them to arrest pirates attacking their ships, and hand them over to the flag country for prosecution. I can't imagine anyone would object.

As long as getting caught is a low-risk, low-cost incident, then there is no downside for the pirates, and piracy will flourish. We have to create adequate disincentives -- that is, be willing to meet violence with violence, and then be willing and able to arrest and imprison pirates who hijack or attempt to hijack ships.
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Old 20-04-2009, 12:25   #150
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...and hand them over to the flag country for prosecution. I can't imagine anyone would object.
As I've posted already UNCLOS gives every signatory state the legal go-ahead to arrest any pirate anywhere on the high seas and prosecute them according to their own laws. And UNSCRs allow those states to treat Somali TTW as the high seas for the purpose of arresting pirates. But it would be a fairly expensive proposition for the few countries that have already coughed-up to police the area to also take on the expense of importing, trying and housing criminals. Other than France (who only prosecutes pirates that have both attacked French vessels and have been captured by the French Navy), none of the victims' flag states has stepped up to take on the task of jailing the pirates. So nobody is objecting per se, but ain't nobody agreeing either.
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