Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2016, 10:45   #1
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Cruising "out there" means long expired drugs in the cabinet or First Aid Kit.

Some cruisers say you will die poppin an expired drug. Some say they last forever.

A new reports show that its closer to Forever, and NO toxic worries.

Drugs degrade over the years, but we are talking up to 50 years. Many are fine to 5 years after expiry just maybe the dose has dropped off a bit

So have a look at this report and lets here your thoughts. (Please read the report before you comment. I will know )



https://m.medicalletter.org/w1483b


Would particularly appreciate any Medicos thoughts


Mark



Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 10:47   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

I imagine it depends on the drug, but asked a doc once about antibiotics and he said not to worry about it unless it's years expired.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 11:07   #3
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

OK, what I got was if left in original un-opened containers, and that heat and humidity play a part.
I'm assuming we aren't talking original, unopened containers, and my boat is sorta hot sometimes and pretty humid.

What kind of drug we talking about here? Prescription antibiotics and or pain killers I assume? Not OTC stuff?

I remember that antibiotics last longer if refrigerated?


I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 11:10   #4
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,019
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Years ago I had a relative who worked for pharma company in Europe. She used to laugh at the expiration date worries saying that most dates are there for marketing reasons as 99% of the drugs are still good years after these mostly arbitrary dates. And, considering their unavailability or quality issues in many parts of the world, the US or Canadian made drug that expired is still probably a much safer bet than a "fresh" no name drug you would get in some 3rd world boonies.

On a related note. A friend was vacationing on Margarita Island in the late 90s (before Chavez). He had some sort of hypertension episode and was taken to a fancy (by local standards) private hospital. The doctor was a nice gentleman, well spoken, etc. and after all the required tests gave my friend some French blood pressure pills, had him stay there for observation and checked him out in the late afternoon. Upon getting back to the States my buddy had to be hospitalized with same and additional issues and his US doctor was horrified when he read the Venezuelan prescription as this drug apparently is banned in US precisely because it produced the side effects which led to my friend's US hospitalization. So much for "fresh" medicine.
__________________
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 11:19   #5
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post


I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?
That's where this report is good the group is about drugs:

Quote:

The Medical Letter, Inc. is a nonprofit organization that publishes critical appraisals of new prescription drugs and comparative reviews of drugs for common diseases in its newsletter,
__________________
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 12:05   #6
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

big pharma chose a date out of a hat and folks bow to that arbitrary date.
sometimes that date is based on half-life of drug, sometimes on nothing but air.
i distrust big pharma more than i distrust their chemicals, having administered em most of my adult life.
i keep and use them as at sea of when dire need hits., it is good to have something even old to use.

if i didnt die from outdated mercurochrome, i wont die of old other stuffies..
have fun.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 12:23   #7
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
pirate Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

I had a part as a doc in a college play.

I always say yes when asked if I need something for pain. Between the dentists and surgeons, I have a stash of Vicodin-like pills, some are approaching 10 years old. As needed, I take the oldest first. I can't measure the potency remaining but it's always enough for the strained back kinda thing.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 12:39   #8
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today.

Although liquid medications (like my eye drops) can have their effective life badly impacted, if they are not kept refrigerated.

It's amazing the number of people that think a 'Best Before' date is the same as a 'Use By' date too.

There's some great dehydrated foods I am going to stock up with on the boat, that have a very conservative 'Use By' date of 20 years.

Some people whine like heck because they have noticed a Best Before date of 5 years, and think they have to chuck the stuff away. My kid Sis is a horror for chucking perfectly good stuff out, because it has gone past the Best Before date, when I have even put it in the freezer. /sigh
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 12:51   #9
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post

I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?
Absolutely! A good one anyway.

When my Chemist (Pharmacist over here) uncle came to visit, the first thing he would do was check the medicine cabinet out.

That would be followed by "Who prescribed this xxxx?" and "Whar's it prescribed for?".

All too often, that was followed by "Whatever you do, don't take that rubbish, I'll send you something that works as soon as I get back to the shop." followed by him chucking the 'rubbish' on the fire to dispose of it.

I remember him doing that with Purple Hearts that my mother was prescribed, Valium that my mother was prescribed, an ointment for something I was prescribed as a kid, and loads of other stuff along the way.

Strangely enough, all the stuff he sent, always seemed to work as intended.

I think he asked for the names of the Dr's prescribing the rubbish, because he knew all of them in the area anyway, and if any of them were prescribing anything dangerous or counter productive, he'd have a quiet chat with them.
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 12:56   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 13:02   #11
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?
Purity.

Hey I wasn't me that did the tests, I just read the report.

By the way I do sympathise very much with doctors today. In general they aren't allowed very much time with patients, and it can be an uphill struggle for them getting to the bottom of patients needs, and they are over encouraged to go along with prescribing what a computer screen is telling them to prescribe.

For example, after regularly describing the symptoms to around 10 different doctors, it took 17 years of describing those symptoms, for the reality that I had gout (caused by a prescribed diuretic - I don't drink nearly enough for optimum health benefit, let alone to get gout), to sink in with one of them. Greatly assisted by me asking them "It's not Gout is it?"

Of course that you only have a 3 month window to cure it, didn't exactly help me much . . .
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 19:54   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Tetracycline degrades into a harmful chemical with age. It was the cheapest anti-biotic when we sailed but you need to believe the use by date
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 20:59   #13
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?
I think this has substance. Depending on the chemical of course. Part of the reason is because of the talc used to bind the tablet nowdays. In the 20's, they didn't always use a binder. They also have limited methods of ensuring consistancy in binders when they did use them. e.g the thickness of binder.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 21:02   #14
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

I asked my wife what she thought (she's a specialist nurse or clinical nurse you may call it). She suggests the article is spot on. There are exceptions though. No medications are likely to turn toxic and cause harm that she's aware of. The harm that could be caused is when a patient is depending on a certain dose and the many years old expired dose may not give the paitent what they need.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 03:24   #15
Registered User
 
Alan Mighty's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scarborough Marina, Moreton Bay
Posts: 663
Re: Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
No medications are likely to turn toxic and cause harm that she's aware of.
You need a new nurse.

Tetracycline, a common antibiotic, is one medication that can "turn toxic" by decomposing into epi-tetracycline and anhydro-tetracycline. One possible result is a form of kidney damage called Fanconi Syndrome.
__________________

__________________
Alan Mighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ditch bags.....ACR Rapid Ditch, Revere.....or something else? Opinions? motaman9 Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 5 23-04-2014 06:19
How to verify a new boat is "chemically (drugs) clean" Jd1 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 25 22-11-2012 13:56
S8 Class Drugs Kordie Health, Safety & Related Gear 19 05-07-2010 15:40
Checking for Drugs gettinthere Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 55 03-06-2010 15:12
Prescription drugs needed for offshore? gbanker Health, Safety & Related Gear 1 19-03-2009 22:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.