Expired Drugs. Die or Ditch? New Report

[MarkJ]

Cruising "out there" means long expired drugs in the cabinet or First Aid Kit.

Some cruisers say you will die poppin an expired drug. Some say they last forever.

A new reports show that its closer to Forever, and NO toxic worries.

Drugs degrade over the years, but we are talking up to 50 years. Many are fine to 5 years after expiry just maybe the dose has dropped off a bit

So have a look at this report and lets here your thoughts. (Please read the report before you comment. I will know )



https://m.medicalletter.org/w1483b


Would particularly appreciate any Medicos thoughts


Mark



Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.

[Cheechako]

I imagine it depends on the drug, but asked a doc once about antibiotics and he said not to worry about it unless it's years expired.

[a64pilot]

OK, what I got was if left in original un-opened containers, and that heat and humidity play a part.
I'm assuming we aren't talking original, unopened containers, and my boat is sorta hot sometimes and pretty humid.

What kind of drug we talking about here? Prescription antibiotics and or pain killers I assume? Not OTC stuff?

I remember that antibiotics last longer if refrigerated?


I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?

[Island Time O25]

Years ago I had a relative who worked for pharma company in Europe. She used to laugh at the expiration date worries saying that most dates are there for marketing reasons as 99% of the drugs are still good years after these mostly arbitrary dates. And, considering their unavailability or quality issues in many parts of the world, the US or Canadian made drug that expired is still probably a much safer bet than a "fresh" no name drug you would get in some 3rd world boonies.

On a related note. A friend was vacationing on Margarita Island in the late 90s (before Chavez). He had some sort of hypertension episode and was taken to a fancy (by local standards) private hospital. The doctor was a nice gentleman, well spoken, etc. and after all the required tests gave my friend some French blood pressure pills, had him stay there for observation and checked him out in the late afternoon. Upon getting back to the States my buddy had to be hospitalized with same and additional issues and his US doctor was horrified when he read the Venezuelan prescription as this drug apparently is banned in US precisely because it produced the side effects which led to my friend's US hospitalization. So much for "fresh" medicine.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?

That's where this report is good the group is about drugs:

The Medical Letter, Inc. is a nonprofit organization that publishes critical appraisals of new prescription drugs and comparative reviews of drugs for common diseases in its newsletter,

[zeehag]

big pharma chose a date out of a hat and folks bow to that arbitrary date.
sometimes that date is based on half-life of drug, sometimes on nothing but air.
i distrust big pharma more than i distrust their chemicals, having administered em most of my adult life.
i keep and use them as at sea of when dire need hits., it is good to have something even old to use.

if i didnt die from outdated mercurochrome, i wont die of old other stuffies..
have fun.

[Blue Crab]

I had a part as a doc in a college play.

I always say yes when asked if I need something for pain. Between the dentists and surgeons, I have a stash of Vicodin-like pills, some are approaching 10 years old. As needed, I take the oldest first. I can't measure the potency remaining but it's always enough for the strained back kinda thing.

[Ribbit]

In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today.

Although liquid medications (like my eye drops) can have their effective life badly impacted, if they are not kept refrigerated.

It's amazing the number of people that think a 'Best Before' date is the same as a 'Use By' date too.

There's some great dehydrated foods I am going to stock up with on the boat, that have a very conservative 'Use By' date of 20 years.

Some people whine like heck because they have noticed a Best Before date of 5 years, and think they have to chuck the stuff away. My kid Sis is a horror for chucking perfectly good stuff out, because it has gone past the Best Before date, when I have even put it in the freezer. /sigh

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I assume a Pharmacist would know better than a Dr?

Absolutely! A good one anyway.

When my Chemist (Pharmacist over here) uncle came to visit, the first thing he would do was check the medicine cabinet out.

That would be followed by "Who prescribed this xxxx?" and "Whar's it prescribed for?".

All too often, that was followed by "Whatever you do, don't take that rubbish, I'll send you something that works as soon as I get back to the shop." followed by him chucking the 'rubbish' on the fire to dispose of it.

I remember him doing that with Purple Hearts that my mother was prescribed, Valium that my mother was prescribed, an ointment for something I was prescribed as a kid, and loads of other stuff along the way.

Strangely enough, all the stuff he sent, always seemed to work as intended.

I think he asked for the names of the Dr's prescribing the rubbish, because he knew all of them in the area anyway, and if any of them were prescribing anything dangerous or counter productive, he'd have a quiet chat with them.

[MarkSF]

"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?

Purity.

Hey I wasn't me that did the tests, I just read the report.

By the way I do sympathise very much with doctors today. In general they aren't allowed very much time with patients, and it can be an uphill struggle for them getting to the bottom of patients needs, and they are over encouraged to go along with prescribing what a computer screen is telling them to prescribe.

For example, after regularly describing the symptoms to around 10 different doctors, it took 17 years of describing those symptoms, for the reality that I had gout (caused by a prescribed diuretic - I don't drink nearly enough for optimum health benefit, let alone to get gout), to sink in with one of them. Greatly assisted by me asking them "It's not Gout is it?"

Of course that you only have a 3 month window to cure it, didn't exactly help me much . . .

[roverhi]

Tetracycline degrades into a harmful chemical with age. It was the cheapest anti-biotic when we sailed but you need to believe the use by date

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

"In tests of 'out of date' aspirins from a range of periods, aspirins from the 1920's were found to be of a far higher quality and effectiveness, than aspirins made and fresh off the production line, today."

Absolute ****ocks. So 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from the 1920s was more effective than 500mg of acetylsalicylic acid from today? How was the compound different?

I think this has substance. Depending on the chemical of course. Part of the reason is because of the talc used to bind the tablet nowdays. In the 20's, they didn't always use a binder. They also have limited methods of ensuring consistancy in binders when they did use them. e.g the thickness of binder.

[Rustic Charm]

I asked my wife what she thought (she's a specialist nurse or clinical nurse you may call it). She suggests the article is spot on. There are exceptions though. No medications are likely to turn toxic and cause harm that she's aware of. The harm that could be caused is when a patient is depending on a certain dose and the many years old expired dose may not give the paitent what they need.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

No medications are likely to turn toxic and cause harm that she's aware of.

You need a new nurse.

Tetracycline, a common antibiotic, is one medication that can "turn toxic" by decomposing into epi-tetracycline and anhydro-tetracycline. One possible result is a form of kidney damage called Fanconi Syndrome.