What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I still can't see any situation in which all navigation satellites go out that every onboard piece of electronics doesn't also go out.

ASAT missiles. A bad software upgrade to the constellation. Solar storm. Jamming.

I'm not suggesting that any of these are likely, but they are possible.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Jamming.

Me and a few others often gather with our guitars and some beers. Our playing is pretty bad, but that bad?

I do often have problems navigating afterwards, though...

Mark

[colemj]

Turns out the new satellites being launched have increased resistance to jamming: US Air Force to Launch New GPS Satellite Tonight

Maybe I will test this by also singing?

Mark

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

That isn't what you said. You said "How many plotter potatoes know how to get a celestial fix out of a plotter that lost its gps signal?"

Using an electronic plotter as a plotting aid (like a plotting board) has nothing to do with getting a fix out of the plotter.

If English is not your native language you deserve some understanding, but what you said is not what you seem to have meant.

For myself, a notepad and a plotting sheet are easier to use than a plotter for DR and tracking fixes but hey, if you like sticking your head in the plotter have a great time.

(...)

Did you really expect a free lunch?

BTW I have an even worse piece of news for all our plotter potatoes: one does not need a sextant to get the altitude.

I am truly sorry. ;-)

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

(...)

*grin* My mechanical watch probably drifts more per day than your Casio does per month.

(...)

*grin* As long as we know how much we drift, we are fine!

b.

[Ex-Calif]

Please - If you are going to argue the CN side of this topic make sure all your electronics are out including your digital watches.

And the idea that those raised on electronic nav are inferior at plotting routes is preposterous. Everyone is individual.

I learned "paper" nav as a pilot including wind drift etc. For my cross country exam I had to pre-plot a 300 mile course, with variation, deviation, wind calcs for each leg including ETA to waypoints and fly that course, hitting the waypoint times by DR navigation using compass and airspeed with the electronics shut off.

After successfully completing that the instructor said, "Now that the requirement to teach you that is over, let me show you how we really navigate." - LOL

VHF, ADF & later GPS. Nobody was learning celestial navigation for flying in the late 70's.

I find all the drama here about CN to be cute and quaint and really you are all dinosaurs. I have no incentive to change your mind but when the CN guys tell every newbie that they must learn CN or die I am gonna jump in and call you out.

It is a much more useful expenditure of time to go learn why surface temps turn into weather and what are the prevailing phenomena that cause weather and way you pick certain times of the year to travel on certain routes.

Lack of CN does not kill people, weather does.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Lack of CN does not kill people, weather does.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Lack of CN does not kill people, weather does.

Bingo!

When is the last time we heard of a boat lost because the crew could not get a position fix?

When was the last time we heard of a boat lost because the crew sailed into conditions they or the boat could not handle knowing the whole time exactly where they were?

There are real dangers and imaginary ones. Most people can tell the difference but not everyone seems willing to accept it.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Lack of CN does not kill people, weather does.

+1 ...

[paralog]

Originally Posted by d design

How many people here even know how to get simple 3 point fix? I see so many computer geeks here talking about their Ipads and Iphones and crap.

Dinosaurs please get over it. Technology moves on. GPS is here to stay. The dinosaurs probably said the same thing when the first wheel came out.

Yeah for Ipad, Iphones (which I used when there was a loose connection on a GPS antenna) and all other electronic devices as it make my boating easier and less time spent at a chart table.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by paralog

GPS is here to stay.

You haven't heard my singing…

Mark

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

ASAT missiles. A bad software upgrade to the constellation. Solar storm. Jamming.

I'm not suggesting that any of these are likely, but they are possible.

1) there aren't enough ASAT missles in the world to take down even half of the sattelites.

2) to all four seperate constellations run by different governments all at the same time?

3) in which case you also loose all your onboard electronics. Assuming it is strong enough to take down the hardened sattelites as well.

4) only if you are within range of land. In which case just point towards the harbor.

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by Stumble

1) there aren't enough ASAT missles in the world to take down even half of the sattelites.

You only need to take down one.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Bingo!

When is the last time we heard of a boat lost because the crew could not get a position fix?

When was the last time we heard of a boat lost because the crew sailed into conditions they or the boat could not handle knowing the whole time exactly where they were?

There are real dangers and imaginary ones. Most people can tell the difference but not everyone seems willing to accept it.

It really is interesting when we do lose a boat and you find out it was grandpa and grandma in force 8 storms. The boat is knocked down/rolled, dismasted and the rudder falls off.

The conversation here immediately starts with - bad seamanship. A true sailor would have been hove to with spectacular sail setting and heroic helmsmanship.

Then it will be into why that particular bendy-plasti is not a "bluewater boat" prone to rudder failures and real silors only go to sea in traditional boats.

No one ever posts the forecast from 5 days ago and say, "What the hell were they thinking?"

So short question is, "Why are there so many threads about seamanship and proper boats and almost zero threads about the weather?"

I am not the best weather guy but maybe we do have some members who are expert who can teach a thing or two? What about a weekly challenge where the surface charts ore posted and the 5-day synoptics and then we all try to decide what the weather will be for common passages - hint FL to Caribbean, mexico to ploynesia, north atlantic, asia to Australia...

Sorry for the thread drift - let's get back to arguing about sextants.

[robert sailor]

If you are doing short hops or coastal cruising weather is seldom an issue if you do your homework but crossing oceans is a different thing. The really big weather systems like hurricanes will be seen days ahead but many times a low can develop very quickly and an average sailboat does not have the speed to avoid it. I have had several occasions where the actual and forecast weather were not even close so its not uncommon and then you better have some decent skills bendi toy or otherwise.