Photos of Anchors Setting

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks Paul.

That's a big improvement.

I should get some photo manipulation software (preferably for the iPad. Are there any good ones?)

I think the most simple photo software on the planet is googles Picasa, & it is free.. It is now available for Mac, finally, but I am not sure about iPad...

I own Adobe Photo Shop, Adobe Lightroom, Adobe Elements, Aperture and more and yet still use Picasa 98% of the time....

[Paul L]

Sometimes it doesn't really set. But you live with it. The picture is on day 3. It's a 77lb (35kg) Spade on hard limestone dead coral-rock.

[Palarran]

Sorry for my ignorance, but why are you all using floats? Is it to locate the anchor easier when swimming?

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the photo Paul.

This sort of set makes me very nervous. The steel Spade is a great anchor and would normally set much better, but this looks like a rock substrate and nothing can dig into that.

The holding will be limited, and you need to consider that the anchor may drag in quite low windspeeds (20-25 knots), but the results are very unpredictable the tip can sometimes jam in between rocks and hold in stronger wind.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Sorry for my ignorance, but why are you all using floats? Is it to locate the anchor easier when swimming?

There are two kinds of floats I use on the anchor.

The first is an "underwater" float. This floats 1.5-2 meters above the seabed, but remains underwater. This is permanently attached to my anchor,( but occasionally is tied back if I am anchoring in very shallow water where there is a danger of it bring caught in props.)
This underwater float shows where the the anchor is located if you are diving and the anchor is completely buried. It is especially useful in weed.

It also helps if the anchor is fouled. A retrieval Iine can be attached to the underwater float and this reduces the depth needed to dive and the difficulty of threading a rope onto an anchor that is buried. It causes no inconvenience to other boats so is attached to my anchor full time.

The second type of float reaches all the way to the surface. This marks the location of the anchor and means a retrieval line can be attached without diving at all.
However, it is a bit rude. It restricts how other boats can anchor. If they swing into this surface buoy they risk it catching on their prop or rudder.

At the moment it is very early in the season and most anchorages have very few boats. I am checking the performance of the Mantus several times each day and a float marking the location makes this easier, but it is not something that should be used often.

[Palarran]

Isn't in you bed time?

I know about the float to the surface and agree with you about it being rude. Also, I personally think they are somewhat useless as the rope size people use are not of sufficient strength to actually haul in their anchor anyways (if it's stuck). So all they are doing is being rude.

Good idea with the float for locating your anchor quickly. I probably won't do it but its good to log it back in the gray matter.

FYI, this comment:
In the Med I see a lot of people dive on their anchor, but even if looks terrible (like my photo of the Delta just lying on its side). They invariably do nothing.

Yep its on the bottom

We dive on ours a lot and like you I check out the neighborhood. 75% of the anchors are not set at all. And I almost never see anyone backing down on their anchor. Can I be nation specific here? The French!! You know who anchors the best IMO, Scandinavian countries. Those guys are serious about their sailing.

One last thing, remember the question I had about anchor shackles? I bought the Wichard, and Crosby 1/2 and 5/8. I will probably use the Crosby 1/2 as the 5/8 in a big mo, can't see it fitting my chain. The Wichard is nice but after looking at the two side by side, bigger is better.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Isn't in you bed time?

Not when anchors are being discussed

Originally Posted by Palarran

We dive on ours a lot and like you I check out the neighborhood. 75% of the anchors are not set at all.

I agree. Some anchors are un, or very poorly set. This will still hold the boat in 20 knots or so, but not in stronger winds.

Some of the anchors are not set because they owners never put any force on them. This is no fault of the anchor. Many of these anchors will set as increasing wind provides the force necessary.

Other anchors have not set despite adequate force being applied. When this force had been at a reasonable scope and in a controlled fashion (not a sudden jerk) it indicates a poor substrate, or a poor anchor performance. Usually the latter.

This is obvious diving. This Delta anchor was deployed with adequate scope in a controlled fashion ( I watched the drop), but has failed to set. It is obvious sufficient force has been applied the anchor has steadily pulled through the sand (this can be seen with the drag marks), but has failed to set. The anchor is left on its side )

The Delta is actually a reasonable anchor. I do not mean to single it out as a bad anchor. I have only had the underwater camera a short time and this is just a single example of a poor performance. Nevertheless, the great anchors will very rarely exhibit this sort of performance, in a reasonable substrate, with reasonable technique.

Most of the time the wind force is insufficient to reveal the weakness in the anchors setting ability. The boat owner is unaware of the problem, but these differences are still very obvious if you have the opportunity to observe what is happening underwater.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Not when anchors are being discussed

There's help for this. It's called AA, Anchorholics Anonymous. There should be a group near you.

.

Your pictures are EXACTLY what my undersized delta did two years ago. The sand, or substrate as you call it, is much different in the Med. It's very loose and light. I appreciate what you are doing for the anchoring issues, btw. Crossing the Atlantic and encountering my first prolonged serious gale was scary, but not nearly as much as the first time my anchor let loose in the middle of the night during a mistral. Good lord, I promised that would never happen again if the only thing that stands in the way is knowledge and money.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks for the photo Paul.

This sort of set makes me very nervous. The steel Spade is a great anchor and would normally set much better, but this looks like a rock substrate and nothing can dig into that.

The holding will be limited, and you need to consider that the anchor may drag in quite low windspeeds (20-25 knots), but the results are very unpredictable the tip can sometimes jam in between rocks and hold in stronger wind.

Oh yea, this is not good holding. Fortunately there is 600 miles of open ocean behind me right now. If it does drag, the noise of the chain on the rocks is loud enough to wake anyone (although I use the great VesperMarine anchor alarm tied to a loud electronic chime).
Here's a photo of a guy who anchored near here 2 weeks ago and dragged in the middle of the night. The photo was taken 3 days ago and the boat is still not off.

[NornaBiron]

This morning we moved anchorages and had a short stop to collect water. Again we had difficulty getting the Spade to set in a weedy bottom, not too much problem as the conditions were benign and we were only staying for a very short time. Other boats had spent several nights at anchor in the same spot, it would have been interesting to see if their anchors had set and how the Mantus would perform in similar conditions. We didn't take any photos unfortunately.

We are now in our overnight spot and have dived on our and other anchors in the area. The bottom is soft sand with the odd patch of weed. We set using 4:1 scope using the 'John' method, as we call it! The anchor has completely disappeared, its position identified by the float line attached.

[NornaBiron]

The following two pictures are of anchors within 150m of us, very well buried, not sure what they are as the boat owners were not on board to ask.

[NornaBiron]

We watched the owner of this Kobra use a pretty good technique to dig his anchor in. When we informed him that the anchor had set poorly and offered to show him the pictures, he informed us that the wind would ensure that it set properly if it started to blow and that he had the best anchor in the world - possibly not a claim to be making when looking at the other anchors in the area that are much better set!

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the photos and report. I blew up the first photo enhanced the contrast and while there is not enough detail to be sure, it looks like an Ultra swivel. If correct its almost certainly an Ultra anchor.
A great result.

Yep, I think I will have to get to one of those AA meetings

[noelex 77]

This is the Ultra swivel.It has a rather unique appearance.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Photo 3 a Delta poorly set. The anchor is lying on its side with only the toe dug in. The boat concerned dropped the anchor and slowly reversed back in textbook fashion. The anchor failed to set and they failed to recognise this fact dragging the anchor in a long furrow and leaving the anchor unset. This is not acceptable. This was their third try although the first two attempts were in slightly poorer setting area some distance away.

The anchor needs to be lifted and the set repeated perhaps with more scope to get the anchor to set properly. The Delta anchor normally sets reasonably well, but this is an example of a poor performance.

Despite the poor setting of the anchor this was enough to hold the boat, without dragging in the light to moderate winds.

The 2nd pic in this pair looks like a Kobra to me, a French made copy of a Delta type , but not the real deal Simpson Lawrence original.