Binoculars - Traditional or Stabilised???

[hellosailor]

"Consider lithium batteries for anything expensive, or anything that might sit a long time without being used. They last much longer than alkaline and never leak."

AFAIK the lithium primary batteries are much better at not leaking. No idea what's in the Energizers but the typical SAFT chemistry is also simply not able to put out the amperage that alkaline batteries do, and they warn you about that.

Also, Energizer, Rayovac (now sadly bought out by Energizer) and Duracell all claim over 10 years shelf life for their alkalines. And of course they all still leak. Lithium AA's are damned expensive though. And the larger sizes (i.e. from SAFT) are both pricey and hard to find, they ship as hazmat.

[Wotname]

Well thanks again to all so many POV

Some quick comments

Originally Posted by Pete7

I recently bought a £100 pair of binos and after 6 months perfectly happy with them. I would find it hard to justify a really expensive pair for use on a small boat often bouncing around and covered in spray.

Perhaps there is a case for two, one cheap pair in the £100 bracket that can be left on deck during a watch and if dropped won't cause a hissy fit and for the occasional need to identify that cardinal or a wave breaking on a rock then out come the expensive pair. However, no point in having $700 binos if they are always secured away in their case below decks.

Pete

Yep, one reason why I have not upgraded my entry level Tascos. They do the job (just); they were a replacement when my Bushnells were stolen a long time bck in Darwin. The Bushnells weren't fancy but they were good (mid level I guess).

Originally Posted by roverhi

.......

Another issue with the Fujinon stabilized is they have a small current drain when turned off and will flatten the batteries over time. When AA batteries are discharged they will leak acidic liquid that will destroy the electronics if left in the binoculars. I discovered this early on and was religious about disconnecting the battery case and removing the batteries. Got lazy once and just disconnected the battery case but didn't remove the batteries. Apparently there was still an electrical connection, the batteries were drained, leaked into the binoculars and now I have a very expensive pair of non stabilized binoculars. Haven't contacted Fujinon to see if they are repairable so may not be a fatal error.

Thanks for this experience, this fact alone might be enough of a PITA not to go down the Fuzi 14 x 40 IS route.

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Wot: Both. Sorry.

But regular 7x50s first and then stabilized later, perhaps much later if necessary. I use the 7x50s many, many, many times throughout a normal cruising day... way more often than I'd use the (heavier) stabilized binoc...........

-Chris

This is the way I leaning right now. High end traditional (Fuji Polaris) and perhaps later an entry level IS (Canon perhaps?)

Originally Posted by skipmac

My experience.

Non-stabilized.

- A good pair of 7X50 is essential for the light gathering ability of the lens. It makes a huge difference in marginal light conditions, even at night.
- Do well for seeing the big picture, wide area etc.
- Even in relatively calm conditions I have found that 7X50 non stabilized I cannot read the numbers on channel markers or lettering on any signs. In fact by the time I could read with the binoculars I could read them without as well.

Stabilized.

- Are invaluable for trying to determine if the channel marker is #16 or #18.
- I think the Fujinons are the best and have a greater degree of stabilization in rougher conditions but if budget is an issue the Canon 10X30 will do the job for 99% of my uses which is usually in a channel, inshore or other places where it is usually not as rough and I need to read a marker.

Yes good point - similar to above

Originally Posted by boatman61

Wottie.. look at it as creating beneficial competition.. at our age its a race to see which lasts longer.. us or the bino's..

Ain't that the truth, will I need them in the nursing home and what do the grandkids want

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

.......

Wotname... ask yourself... where you sail how often do you need to read numbers on distant buoyage? In my case it would be a very rare event. However I often want to make out what lights I am seeing on the horizon on dark nights....

That is why I have 7x50s.

Geez, if I ask those questions I never get anything ; me old Tascos 7x50 will rule the day

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I've nothing to add to the excellent advice of Ping and many others. 7x50 compass binocs first, preferably Fuji Polaris, then stabilized ones if you have money left over. Stabilized binos are great, but they are a somewhat specialized luxury. A good pair of 7x50's are basic kit, which you shouldn't really be at sea without.

I guess you are right and I do love the concept of dependable, simple and robust along with quality - relatively speaking. I'm getting closer to those Fuji Polaris.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...
Next time we hook up, you can try both and see what you think.

Ann

Yes I must say I did like using your Canon IS hobbies the other day, being able to easily read o boat name from some distance was good. Thanks again for the sail.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

.......

I suppose I'd like stabilizing binocs, but I can't see putting that much money into something that I also don't trust to last very long. The stabilizing bits have to be fast, precise, and durable, and somehow I just know there's no one besides the maker who can service them--and for how long will THEY have parts on hand?

......

This is my biggest concern regarding IS.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I may have posted this before...

Our aging Canon 10x30 IS have lived on board, uncovered, mostly under the dodger when sailing for around 8-10 years now (don't remember exactly and too lazy to dig up the purchase date). The so called "armor" coating died rather quickly with the same mess as others reported. I removed the gunk with acetone and lived without it. Ugly but not a big deal.

The stabilizer system has worked faultlessly from day one... kinda to my surprise! The optics, taken as a whole, have gradually dimmed. I don't know how to technically describe it,but the effect is as if there were haze inside the body of the binocs. They are still in daily use, but there is a significant decline in their quality of vision. They are not heavier than our Fujinons... to the contrary, they are lighter, and smaller as well. This means that one can use them one-handed, where the stabilizer really helps out... all the while holding on for dear life with the other hand. This is a big help in rougher wx.

I have not experienced battery drain when not in use. We use rechargable Eneloop batteries, and they last a couple of weeks of frequent use. No leakage noted, and the batteries are now around 5 years old and have been through many cycles.
..
Bottom line is that I use them preferentially to the Fujinons for normal activities. I use the Fujis at night when appropriate. I think that for an entry level, bottom of the line item they have performed very well, and that they serve our yachting purposes very well indeed... but I'm glad that I've got the nearly thirty year old Fujis as well!

Jim

Always a dissenting view somewhere
Clearly the electronics have stood the test of time in your instance

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

A few further thoughts ....

It really does depend on what you are doing...
..........


Compass....? ( specifically excluded in the OP's first post )

Do you find yourself always reaching for your HBC? Then maybe you should buy compass bins..

Do you have a steel boat or are you planning to sail from Hobart to Alaska... maybe you should save your cash.

Very true but if that is the question, I would have to stick with what I already got (Tasco 7x50 and Nikon 8 x 25)

As for the compass, I note the Fuji Polaris with compass suggests it is a "stabilised word wide compass", not sure how they do that but maybe it's true.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

.......

from Tasmania, I don't think it would help much even if Canon did take responsibility for that.

Uncalled for, retract please.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by canyonbat

We have a very expensive unstabilized set that we hardly ever use. Rather, we use our Canon Powershot IS camera with 50X optical zoom. Take the pic then blow it up even more. I think I could read a dock sign from a quarter mile away!

I second this. This is a useful trick e.g. when you want to read some text far away (like guidance for boats entering a marina, or ship's name). I use a clumsy full frame camera, but a 50X IS Canon Powershot might do even better job.

For curved archipelago routes where I need the binoculars all the time, I like my Leica 8x20 binoculars since I can keep them on my neck all the time, and their optical quality is great. With such small and light binoculars you can make "biological image stabilizaton" work quite well by leaning against your eyebrows with your curved index fingers.

[SaltyMetals]

I think WOTNAME's question would have been really valid 15-20 yrs ago. Sure the stabilised 10X or 12X are fantastic in being able to pick out details for navigation or boat names much earlier than the good old 7 X 50's but who needs that now when you can have AIS, detailed charts and Radar, all feeding into your cockpit plotter. That way you have everything you need at your fingertips. Even the boat names on AIS. For sure, i would not be without my trusty 7 X 50's which i often find i use more at night than during the day. No one has mentioned the brand in this thread but mine are Swarovski 7 X 50. Simply superb clarity and light transmission. My recommendation is to ditch the idea of also having stabilised binos. There are plenty of other things on a boat where the money might be better spent.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

I think WOTNAME's question would have been really valid 15-20 yrs ago. Sure the stabilised 10X or 12X are fantastic in being able to pick out details for navigation or boat names much earlier than the good old 7 X 50's but who needs that now when you can have AIS, detailed charts and Radar, all feeding into your cockpit plotter. That way you have everything you need at your fingertips. Even the boat names on AIS. For sure, i would not be without my trusty 7 X 50's which i often find i use more at night than during the day. No one has mentioned the brand in this thread but mine are Swarovski 7 X 50. Simply superb clarity and light transmission. My recommendation is to ditch the idea of also having stabilised binos. There are plenty of other things on a boat where the money might be better spent.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"

I completely agree that AIS and radar are great and will suffice for nav most of the time I can think of dozens of reasons why binoculars are still an essential bit of boat gear.

One that comes to mind, in the US and I assume some other places, some channels shift a lot over time due to currents and storms. The channel markers are shifted by the USCG to mark the current position so GPS will not put you in the channel and radar won't show the number on the channel markers. In this situation a good pair of binoculars will be very nice to spot the buoys and verify you're in the right place.

I've also heard that a good pair of binoculars can be handy to check out the scenery.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

..
I have used both types of binoculars (Canon Stabilized and marine compass type). The stabilized made a significant difference in comfort of viewing and acuity of the scene, making it easy to see fine lines and tiny details, read letters and numbers, etc.

One time I compared a pair of very expensive Leica binoculars with a pair of Canon Stabilized, while outside observing birds. The stabilized made a huge difference, and would have been my preference, every time for viewing. I quickly swapped the binoculars, back and forth, several times, and the experience convinced me of how much easier it was on my eyes, and how much more fine details I could see, with the stabilized.
....
If you have the money to get a stabilized binocular, do it. I don't think you will regret having them, and will likely enjoy the viewing more. I would. I would use good practices for storage and battery use, as mentioned by Peter, but I would not be worried about longevity of the set as an issue. I would not expect the electronics to last a lifetime (how long is that?), but if they last 10 years or twenty years with care and typical use, and they could, I would enjoy them as long as they did.
....

Great answer and I agree fully.

Stabilized optical systems have been bettered to an unbelievable point.

Recently I bought a camera that boasts on its publicity that have the better and more advanced stabilizing system. Being a long time photographer I never trusted those devices and it was not for that reason that I bought that body but I have to say the results are quite incredible, specially in low light situations where, like on a boat and with binoculars, movements have a big importance on the sharpness of the image.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

I think WOTNAME's question would have been really valid 15-20 yrs ago. Sure the stabilised 10X or 12X are fantastic in being able to pick out details for navigation or boat names much earlier than the good old 7 X 50's but who needs that now when you can have AIS, detailed charts and Radar, all feeding into your cockpit plotter. That way you have everything you need at your fingertips. Even the boat names on AIS.

I agree that AIS is useful, but...

The only boat names that show up on AIS are those with AIS transmitters... and I'd put that at about maybe 1% (likely less) of boats in our area. And navaid numbers don't show up on AIS, either.

-Chris

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Jim-
Have you ever spent time in a new car? Newish car? Then you may have noticed the way there is always a film of crud forming on the inside of the windshield, even if no one has been smoking in the car.
That film is real, it is from plasticizers sublimating and evaporating out of the new plastics in the car. Same thing as a cigarette smoke film, really. And I'd bet you that something in your binocs has been degrading, the same way the armor coat did, and slowly making a haze on the optics. Frequently the antireflective "blacking" in binocs breaks down, leaving little black specs ("dirt") inside waterproof binoculars, leaving no way to clean them without professional servicing. Same same.

In addition there is a fugus that can live on the optics surface slowly discolouring the vision. Thankfully it is rare and normally needs tropical conditions to multiply.

[ranger58sb]

Maybe useful to remind that most brands offer various price points within the brand. So not all Fuji IS binocs are created equal, not all Steiners are created equal, not all etc etc etc. IOW, comparing brand "X" to brand "Y" -- without knowing the actual model (price point) of each candidate -- isn't always perfectly accurate.

-Chris

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Well thanks again to all so many POV

Some quick comments

Yep, one reason why I have not upgraded my entry level Tascos. They do the job (just); they were a replacement when my Bushnells were stolen a long time bck in Darwin. The Bushnells weren't fancy but they were good (mid level I guess).

Perhaps another way to look at it is for the prices being quoted on here you could buy a folding prop or a cruising chute. We spent a decade sailing without binos but do have a chute.

Decisions, decisions.

Pete

[a64pilot]

I have been astonished on my trip down the ICW to find that most of even the big boys, the 90+ foot Multimillion $$ powerboats don’t have AIS or don’t turn it on if they do.

[The Way]

I've always favored monoculars, since they are smaller, lighter, and cheaper for equivalent quality. But they are hard to find. Anyone know of a source/brand of good monoculars, stabilized or not?

Thanks,
Jack

[Sparx]

We too are big fans of using the digital SLR camera with telephoto lens. We get much better results this way than using stabilized binoculars. Snap a picture, then use the digital zoom to read the details. Very easy. MUCH higher magnification than any binocular I have tried.

We also have a couple sets of standard optical binoculars that are in use all the time.

[Valmika]

[QUOTE=Valmika;2565602]I have both. The Fuji 10X50 rangefinders I have had rebuilt once in the 30+ years I have owned them, by the factory service in San Diego, USA. BTW they will sell you their version with supposedly the exact same components for less.


Thank you boatman for the name of the company that builds the ones with Fuji components "Baker" in San Diego, The are the factory authorized shop for Fuji

[El Pinguino]

[QUOTE=Valmika;2568052]

Originally Posted by Valmika

I have both. The Fuji 10X50 rangefinders I have had rebuilt once in the 30+ years I have owned them, by the factory service in San Diego, USA. BTW they will sell you their version with supposedly the exact same components for less.


Thank you boatman for the name of the company that builds the ones with Fuji components "Baker" in San Diego, The are the factory authorized shop for Fuji

Baker Marine market a binocular under their name but it is not a copy of the Fijinon FMTR... different weisght... different physical size. I have no idea where they source them.

Fujinon sends semicomplete glasses to the US where they have laser filters fitted before entering service as M22s with the military. As well as 'Fujinon' they have 'Kama-Tech' and 'Northrop Grumman' branding on them.