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Old 18-02-2015, 22:19   #31
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

I have to say that I have never seen those "stringy things" before either, except directly above a spreader. I first stepped on a boat in 1967 which is much less than 50 years ago.

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Old 18-02-2015, 23:45   #32
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

Well, for you guys that have been sailing for 50' years or thereabouts, it just goes to prove your never too old or too experienced to learn something new.
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Old 19-02-2015, 00:07   #33
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

GILow,

Well, those here now, stringy things are not something I've seen either. FWIW, if they are there to keep the main halyard from blowing forward, RC may have different sail handling practices with his ketch from what we have had with our sloops.

My sense of them is to remove them and see how it goes. Manera is a cutter, not a ketch, and some of the sail handling may well therefore be different. If you do remove them, you might even see a slight improvement in windward performance...always a good deal in my book.

Cheers, guys,

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Old 19-02-2015, 00:21   #34
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
GILow,

Well, those here now, stringy things are not something I've seen either. FWIW, if they are there to keep the main halyard from blowing forward, RC may have different sail handling practices with his ketch from what we have had with our sloops.

My sense of them is to remove them and see how it goes. Manera is a cutter, not a ketch, and some of the sail handling may well therefore be different. If you do remove them, you might even see a slight improvement in windward performance...always a good deal in my book.

Cheers, guys,

Ann
Im not sure what you are suggesting Ann. I can't see what difference to 'sail handling' there is between a ketch and a sloop in reference to this. And I definately can't see the relevance of the 'cutter' distinction. And my 'Ketch' is set up as a 'cutter' too.

The issue of having a halyard catch on items above the top spreader is to do with the main sail, which I can't see how it's different from a ketch, sloop or cutter rig. And if you read the thread you can see I'm not the only one that has this problem specially when we have 'steps'.

Your suggesting about windward improvement is an idea which could have merit.
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Old 19-02-2015, 00:35   #35
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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He's infirmed me I should be using the main halyard line which is spectra and one of two pullies that are in the mast head. They can't break.
Agree completely that you use a halyard that uses a pulley in the mast head. It doesn't matter if it is a jib or main halyard, and people are just crazy about spectra. Yes it's a fine halyard to use. It's probably been downsized to reduce weight aloft, so it probably isn't any stronger than a pre spectra halyard. I have 1/2" double braid polyester, breaking strength at 8300 lbs is more than enough to lift me. Double braid shares the load between the core and sheath, so even if the sheath is damaged there is plenty of strength, not that I'd use a damaged halyard. My point is spectra is single braid, everything load bearing is exposed to sun and other damage.

I would have no issues going up a spectra halyard, I just think it is amusing that once spectra came out many people think nothing else is safe or any good.
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Old 19-02-2015, 01:48   #36
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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Im not sure what you are suggesting Ann. I can't see what difference to 'sail handling' there is between a ketch and a sloop in reference to this. And I definately can't see the relevance of the 'cutter' distinction. And my 'Ketch' is set up as a 'cutter' too.

The issue of having a halyard catch on items above the top spreader is to do with the main sail, which I can't see how it's different from a ketch, sloop or cutter rig. And if you read the thread you can see I'm not the only one that has this problem specially when we have 'steps'.

Your suggesting about windward improvement is an idea which could have merit.
No offense intended, RC,

We've lots of sea miles, never had the problems you've had, therefore don't understand. Have never wanted nor needed that kind of lacing. YMMV

Ann
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Old 19-02-2015, 02:19   #37
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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No offense intended, RC,

We've lots of sea miles, never had the problems you've had, therefore don't understand. Have never wanted nor needed that kind of lacing. YMMV

Ann
no offence taken. I just didn't follow you, that's all.
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Old 19-02-2015, 11:12   #38
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

One theory just occurred to me. Depending on the battens on the main, is it possible that this is to allow shaking a reef while sailing downwind? Perhaps the battens would blow forward and get caught between the mast and shroud?
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Old 19-02-2015, 13:44   #39
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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One theory just occurred to me. Depending on the battens on the main, is it possible that this is to allow shaking a reef while sailing downwind? Perhaps the battens would blow forward and get caught between the mast and shroud?

Very interesting theory. The boat had a full batten main when we bought her, how does that fit with your theory?

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Old 19-02-2015, 23:35   #40
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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Very interesting theory. The boat had a full batten main when we bought her, how does that fit with your theory?

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Perfectly if the top batten was just a little shorter than the top spreader.

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Old 20-02-2015, 19:14   #41
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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Perfectly if the top batten was just a little shorter than the top spreader.
Well, the original owner phoned me today, while I was up the mast as it turns out, go figure. No, I did NOT answer the phone while I was up there, but I had taken the phone up so I had a photographic record of the top which I can now analyse more carefully.

It seems your idea was pretty well right, it was to stop the top of the main sail blowing through the gap and snagging when running before the wind. He did not specifically mention battens being a problem, but I suppose the top batten would be. He said it happened a couple of times so he decided to deal with it, and recommends reinstating the cords before I run before the wind again.

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Old 20-02-2015, 19:56   #42
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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Well, the original owner phoned me today, while I was up the mast as it turns out, go figure. No, I did NOT answer the phone while I was up there, but I had taken the phone up so I had a photographic record of the top which I can now analyse more carefully.

It seems your idea was pretty well right, it was to stop the top of the main sail blowing through the gap and snagging when running before the wind. He did not specifically mention battens being a problem, but I suppose the top batten would be. He said it happened a couple of times so he decided to deal with it, and recommends reinstating the cords before I run before the wind again.

Matt
Well, I must say that surprises my humbleness.

I've not even thought that to be possible if the sail has been made properly.
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Old 20-02-2015, 20:40   #43
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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Well, I must say that surprises my humbleness.



I've not even thought that to be possible if the sail has been made properly.

I don't think it has anything to do with how well the sail was made, the original sails were probably superb when they were made ( though I have replaced them now). I think it has more to do with a coincidence of dimensions. Something to do with how the taper from the top spreaders is just wide enough to allow the top of the main to push through the gap. When I compare my mast with others around me those top spreaders seem quite a bit wider than those on masts of a similar height.

I don't know if the new sails will have the same problem, but I don't intend to find out if I can avoid it. I will, however, observe the top carefully when we are next running before the wind and see if the zig zag lines are taking any load. Maybe the new main sail can somehow no push against that area, but I don't see how.

Mind you, I still have to go back up and replace the lines, along with the wind transducer. Work, work, work and more work.

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Old 20-02-2015, 20:44   #44
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Re: Zig zag cord between the mast and stays above the top spreaders.

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mny are coreect.


the bungee cords that are up there are so the spinnaker, sock or genneker doesn't back wind through the shrouds and snag between the mast and the spreaders

Also very close to the answer as it turns out.


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