Dometic CFX 65W 12V Electric Powered Portable Cooler (Fridge Freezer)... Trouble.

[wtmf]

just because it is new doesnt mean it works correctly.

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by wtmf

just because it is new doesnt mean it works correctly.

If the new unit being shipped corrects the problem then it will most likely be the failed SMPS transfer power from DC to AC switch inside the Danfoss 0500 module and have nothing to do with Demetic refrigeration. The SMPS power is always in the DC mode when there is no AC connected. The question is when did this switch fail at the factory or after installed in boat. I always recommended for blue water cruisers with ENGEL units to carry a backup small inverter as their DC to AC pulse electronics to compressor failed before the AC transformer ever would.

[DeBe]

Richard, since at least 2002 Engel don't use a transformer in there units, they are all electronic.

[Richard Kollmann]

Jack2053, You would be correct if the safety boot up circuit in Danfoss control module sees a sustained 12 volt DC voltage drop. The problem is even a small ohm resistance arc across any connection in a boats refrigerator wiring will cause a momentary millisecond low voltage spike. This dirty currents short duration say in a circuit breaker or switch cannot be seen with a volt meter. I advised OzePete to check with other refrigeration companies engineers who understand this problem. His response was to insult the two refrigeration company owners names I gave him.

Thanks DeBe, I like Ozepete are not keeping up with all the new tech-knowledge, I am older that is my excuse. I was asked to evaluate the Engel45 Qt loaned to me in 2002 by Engel USA and have recommended it ever since.

[DeBe]

Im not exactly young my self at 70. But I like to know what makes these types of fridge tick. These are the electronics of a 2002 Engel. The 240v ac power board would obviously a 110V ac for America.

[Richard Kollmann]

DeBe, I wish I were your age I bought my first automobile when you were one year old. My used 41 Chevrolet had no radio so I bought a two piece kit radio a big box of vacuum tubes that mounted under the hood. The other unit that mounted under the dash had the dial and knobs with flex shafts going through firewall. Industry has come a long way to where we are now with integrated circuits. I have a robot vacuum cleaner with GPS so it won't miss a spot, a refrigerator that thinks for itself and Amazon's talking memory wizard Alexa all operating from my smart phone. I once memorized all the wiring by wire number in a DC3 aircraft but now I need my grandson to program my home appliances.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by Jack2053

Ive been servicing DC refrigeration systems for many years and i always start my repair jobs by checking voltage "ON 12VDC IN" of danfoss electronic modules with a digital multimeter while compressor is trying to start, NOT at the battery terminals. Some should do a video of a multimeter as it shows voltage drop while DC compressor is trying to start on inadequate wiring to conlcude this argument. I know this procedure is not exclusively for me as a lot of fridge mechanics (and i know a lot) start here like ozPete's suggestions. Yes, i doesn't always reveal what the problem is but Its a good starting point. Nothing worse than blaming a problem on something, blabbing on and on about fancy terminology and then looking like an idiot in front of the customer because the problem was a faulty lead (my former apprentice did this a few months ago). In regards to multimeter not reading voltage drops, it is designed to read/meter especially voltages so i do not know what you're trying to say richard? Its almost as if this is a popularity contest if i didn't know any better. I've been in this game a long time, came across a lot of problems (most of them caused by inadequate wiring or voltage drops across under rated fittings) and one thing is clear to me, not dismiss any idea and investigate thoroughly.

Jack, stay with what you, we and the refrigeration industry have been doing for decades. That is test for incoming power supply for voltage drop using a decent multi-meter.

Talk of "Low voltage spikes' causing compressor failure to start is nonsense and just confuses the issue! Most likely that term is wrongly being used to describe the typical rapid supply voltage drop, (especially if there is a poor power supply) that occurs when the compressor attempts to start, exactly what you can read with a multi-meter!

The term 'Voltage Spike' refers to transient voltages, totally separate issue from power supply voltage. Voltage spikes or transient voltages are usually extremely high voltage, very erratic and of extremely short duration. (Voltage Spikes are as the name infers, spikes! That is a very high momentary voltage they can cause module damage and this is why we and a few other manufacturers advocate and use a Transient Voltage Clamp to protect against such harm.
For a Voltage Spike to cause the module to shut down, the spike would have to occur exactly as the compressor attempts to start!

Recommended testing for a drop in voltage upon start up, sufficient to cause the Motor Driver Module to shut down, is done with a multi-meter as most cruisers would have a multi- meter but unlikely to have a CRO available!

Jack, here are links to just a few other industry people who also clearly advocate use of a multi-meter to check for voltage drop to the module that powers the THREE PHASE ALTERNATING CURRENT MOTOR that these compressors employ!

http://www.penguinfrigo.co.uk/assets...0Diagnosis.pdf

http://www.great-water.com/PDF/files...leshooting.pdf

http://www.veco-na.com/images/Power_...on_systems.pdf

Video tests and Data record. | Ozefridge


Cheers OzePete

[Richard Kollmann]

I can understand your attitude towards me because of my questioning you on advice you gave to two boaters with broken refrigeration at remote island locations. Disagreeing with me on technical matters is a healthy exercise without insults to me personally. When we recently debated on use of even a quality voltmeter to locate a frequent low voltage spike on older boats with Danfoss control modules I recommended two refrigeration company owners with electrical experience you know to settle the debate. Your un professional response copied from this forum was “ I doubt that I will be seeking advice from someone who apparently built their first refrigerationsystem 2 to 3 years ago!”
I sent you a private mail pointing out that I understand your anger against me but to insult Rich and John because I recommended them is wrong. I asked in that private mail that you formally apologize to both Rich and John. Just because you believe they are not as experienced in as many years as you does not give you a right to insult them. By now I though you would apologize to them or a Forum Moderator would contact you regarding your many unnecessary insults.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

I can understand your attitude towards me because of my questioning you on advice you gave to two boaters with broken refrigeration at remote island locations. Disagreeing with me on technical matters is a healthy exercise without insults to me personally. When we recently debated on use of even a quality voltmeter to locate a frequent low voltage spike on older boats with Danfoss control modules I recommended two refrigeration company owners with electrical experience you know to settle the debate. Your un professional response copied from this forum was “ I doubt that I will be seeking advice from someone who apparently built their first refrigerationsystem 2 to 3 years ago!”
I sent you a private mail pointing out that I understand your anger against me but to insult Rich and John because I recommended them is wrong. I asked in that private mail that you formally apologize to both Rich and John. Just because you believe they are not as experienced in as many years as you does not give you a right to insult them. By now I though you would apologize to them or a Forum Moderator would contact you regarding your many unnecessary insults.

Pot, meet kettle.

[john61ct]

Yes, no matter how much technical expertise the two of you might offer, the constant digs at each other personally is tiresome to the max, the forum would be so much better off without it, and both of you seem just incapable of cutting it out.

Even when you think you're being "subtle" little sideways digs really like listening in on a couple eight year olds in the school cafeteria.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, no matter how much technical expertise the two of you might offer, the constant digs at each other personally is tiresome to the max, the forum would be so much better off without it, and both of you seem just incapable of cutting it out.

Even when you think you're being "subtle" little sideways digs really like listening in on a couple eight year olds in the school cafeteria.

I find your comment unfair. Sure there has been differences between myself and Richard but if you care to check posts from each of us you will clearly see that my posts have been in an attempt to correct misinformation that Richard has posted. Misinformation that has consequences if not corrected. I have done this in as professional a manner possible with data and links etc to support my position and have had to put up with a lot of unsubstantiated innuendo etc., as a consequence.

I believe Richard considers the forum as his domain and how dare anyone else question him regardless of how wrong or potentially damaging his information is. (This is related to just some key refrigeration factors he doesn't understand, not all of his posts, the majority of which are quite informative)

Many others have contacted me with similar views and suggest I am wasting my time contributing to the forum whilst he is permitted such a free hand to attack anyone making a refrigeration input.

BTW, can you indicate where I have made unprovoked digs at Richard?

Cheers OzePete

[smac999]

Originally Posted by PetePetePete

I tested the with a DMM at the female cigar plug that the Dometic plugs into. It read exactly the same as the Victron showed on the Victron MPPT app... as well as exactly the same as the bank read. All the same.

What I did *not* do was keep the DMM in-line once the unit was plugged in -- however, the Victron clearly showed that there was no significant drop in voltage at all.

You must test with the fridge plugged in and running.

Yiu may very well have 10v at the end of the plug with power through it, and 12v at battery. Which means you have a wiring issue.

[Richard Kollmann]

The facts are what they are and it took too long to isolate this definite voltage problem's location to inside portable refrigerator. Hopefully Triple Pete will have his problem solved with the new unit Dometic is sending him.

This forum is not the only way or place where I lend free assistance to boaters with refrigeration problems. It is true many times they are people referrals from this forum. Yesterday I got a private forum message requesting assistance for a replacement refrigeration unit on a large sailboat and an Email with problems on both refrigerator and freezer compressors on another sailboat. I try to handle those requests with argent problems first so I sometimes have a backlog of 5 to 8 request for help.

[john61ct]

I am not saying you are both equally to blame on the ad-hominem attacks and "digs".

And yes, we all need to do our best to prevent misinformation from getting propagated.

It is unfortunate that other experts so rarely step into your disagreements about objective facts.

But both of you could **greatly** improve the communication style of how the disagreements are expressed.

IMO at this point try to just ignore each other completely as humans,

state your version of The Truth addressing the issues only, without referencing the other explicitly, and

ideally sticking to the OP context.

But all this is just my opinion, in the interest of helping the forum best serve the community.

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I am not saying you are both equally to blame on the ad-hominem attacks and "digs".

And yes, we all need to do our best to prevent misinformation from getting propagated.

It is unfortunate that other experts so rarely step into your disagreements about objective facts.

But both of you could **greatly** improve the communication style of how the disagreements are expressed.

IMO at this point try to just ignore each other completely as humans,

state your version of The Truth addressing the issues only, without referencing the other explicitly, and

ideally sticking to the OP context.

But all this is just my opinion, in the interest of helping the forum best serve the community.

Don’t you think that your lack of interest and opinions here may cause industry exports to avoid this forum.? Insults like yours not technical facts do discouraged the leaders of boat refrigeration companies from participating. The regular Monitors do a fair job of controlling these forums with adult remarks. If you really want to no why industry experts like Cleave of Seafrost, Rob of Frigoboat US and others will no longer participate you should ask them. You have just seen on this thread two more John at Cold Ed marine and Rich of Technautics insulted while you fertilize the beginnings by ignoring out and out insults. I represent nor favor any company but I will assist all refrigeration companies by pointing out dishonest creating marketing especially when they are based on insults and personal threats.