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Old 20-11-2017, 14:43   #1
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Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Looks exciting.

They say the design concepts include:

- ability to fit into a standard berth
- design able to "trickle down" to other classes of racers and cruisers (emphasis added by me).
- affordable and sustainable.
- stable.
- self righting.
- potentially faster than the AC 50 (catamarans).

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sport/more...cid=spartandhp

Call me biased, but this seems to me to be the start of one of the biggest advances in sailing, and potentially cruising, since .... papyrus! OK how about since .... any other suggestions?
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Old 20-11-2017, 15:04   #2
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Looks good to me and it puts the sailors back in control
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Old 20-11-2017, 15:23   #3
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

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Old 20-11-2017, 15:28   #4
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Dude that's weird.
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Old 20-11-2017, 15:53   #5
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Captain Aubrey: "That's the future. What a fascinating modern age we live in."
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Old 20-11-2017, 16:47   #6
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
Looks good to me and it puts the sailors back in control


Why do you think that? My guess is due to less stability on foils, that it would likely require electronic stabilization, fly by wire if you will.
Computer flies the Boat, You ask the computer to make it turn etc.
Of course that is just a guess.
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Old 20-11-2017, 17:09   #7
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Why do you think that? My guess is due to less stability on foils, that it would likely require electronic stabilization, fly by wire if you will.
Computer flies the Boat, You ask the computer to make it turn etc.
Of course that is just a guess.
My guess is that computer control will be banned, all controls manual. Otherwise the class is not sustainable (susceptable to computer breakdown) or cheap, or able to be easily migrated to other classes.

Ever sat on a 3 leg stool? I think these foilers will be fairly stable if used conservatively, but boundaries will be pushed to the edge, leading to potential crashes.

However, hydraulic power will be essential to lift and lower the foil legs, to hold them in place, and to adjust them to help righting in case of capsize. Hence the grinders in the video. Would anyone bet against the grinders in some (all) teams being cyclors instead?

Each of the side foil legs will need independent control, as will each sail. Therefore, and again guessing, crew nos (or tasks) could be:
- skipper (steering)
- tactician
- legs control
- mainsheet trimmer
- jibsheet trimmer
- code zero trimmer
- foresail hauling/reefing.
- hydraulic power (four)
equals 11.

Maybe down to seven or eight by the time some jobs are doubled up ... tactician also grinds, legs control also grinds, sail control down to 2.

If these guesses are close, then there'll be severe sailing skill required in 6 to 8 positions, instead of in two positions as in the last AC.
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Old 20-11-2017, 17:24   #8
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Why do you think that? My guess is due to less stability on foils, that it would likely require electronic stabilization, fly by wire if you will.
Computer flies the Boat, You ask the computer to make it turn etc.
Of course that is just a guess.
The big thing for me would be the return of sail changes again . I did not mind the cyclors but I did not like the lack of crew work and thatís why I although I am a multihull enthusiast I was not engaged in the last AC. Now the one in San Fran that was great . I think getting computer off the controls would be good .
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Old 20-11-2017, 17:38   #9
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote "I think getting computer off the controls would be good ."

Were the last AC Multis computer controlled?
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Old 20-11-2017, 17:50   #10
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Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Other than if the rules donít allow it, why not wing sails? Arenít they the fastest?
I have next to no knowledge about this level of sailing, just a passing amount of aerodynamics.
As I see it a sail is a single surface air foil, a wing sail is I assume a double surface airfoil, and a double surface is more efficient, ask any ultralight person or hang glider.
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Old 20-11-2017, 18:34   #11
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi View Post
Ever sat on a 3 leg stool?
I have. But never one with the third leg broken off halfway up the stool.

In anycase, I'm excited about the design and just hope it actually works. There was a lot of development that went into the catamarans in order to get them to the level they ended at. It was awesome that you guys put it to Oracle.

Do you think a lot of teams will accept the challenge?
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Old 20-11-2017, 20:13   #12
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

If you want to play the game you have to accept the challenge.
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Old 20-11-2017, 20:17   #13
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Palarran: Do you think a lot of teams will accept the challenge?

Most recent rumour I heard was around 10. Entries open Jan 1 2018, close June 30 2018.
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Old 20-11-2017, 20:21   #14
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

"We don't want to go too crazy. We want to develop a class which can certainly become the future of monohull sailing," Bernasconi (Head of Design for TNZ) said.

"Monohulls are going to be an exciting development for us. You've probably got boats which you can eventually see people sailing offshore, doing longer distances. I think that's important as well."
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Old 21-11-2017, 00:25   #15
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Re: Americas Cup AC75 fully foiling mono unveiled ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulinOz View Post
Quote "I think getting computer off the controls would be good ."

Were the last AC Multis computer controlled?
Nope.

These boats used MANUAL controls not AUTOMATIC controls.
See section 15.
http://ac.mueva.eu/media/files/m377_...ss-rule-v1.pdf

The rules for 2017 DID allow electric and electronic assisted actuators and valves, however there were specific limitations on these. The main limitation was essentially that no positional feedback was allowed. This is the critical barrier which eliminates any "computer control".

For instance, the rudder system could have an electronic valve that energized a hydraulic cylinder (pressurized by all that human cranking) which applied a specific force to the rudder. You could even SET that force with a steering wheel on board that utilized a pressure sensor. However, the only feedback allowed was for the pressure, NOT the position.

This distinction in the rules forced a HUMAN to complete the feedback loop. A computer cannot decide what to do without knowing the heading, or at least the rudder position. Neither were allowed here, causing the human to always steer. The electronics effectively gave the helmsman extra strength, donated by the cyclists/grinders. This super-human strength was needed to quickly move the rudder, wing, and daggerboard.

Simply put, the delicate touch needed to sail (and fly) was 100% human, and 0% computer.

I LOVE the idea of a race like this which uses incredible technology to go as fast as humans and wind and boat can possibly go without external power or computer controls.
I HATE the idea that this is now the America's Cup, now without sail changes and spinnakers and hiking out and...
(I guess I'm officially ready to be a grandpa?)
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