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Knottygirlz · 13-04-2006, 08:51

[quote=Rick] I have witnessed terrible male/female interactions along this line where the vessel safety was seriously compromised (and even damaged) merely because the female (go ahead ladies, take exception to this if you will) took exception to the manner in which they perceived communication from their mate occured and they DAMN WELL were not going to put up with it even if it meant $30,000 worth of damage as a result in order to punish the offender

No exception taken here. I think this behavior on the part of the female is inexcusable. The yelling that I *think* was being referred to originally was the belittling kind that had no purpose other than to make the receiving party feel small or stupid. Yelling in the case of urgency or immenant danger is not, to my way of thinking, yelling...more of a warning. To risk life or damage to a vessel because you are too sensitive to receive urgent instruction is childish and downright dangerous.

Boating, whether it be power or sailing is about working as a team. There are plays that need to happen, and usually a coach or captain yelling directions from the sideline....what would happen if the player being yelled at decided not to catch the ball or shoot the puck or kick for the net because they were yelled at to do so?? Pretty dumb. Maybe these women who lay down their lines should enroll in an organized sport for a season.???

Lori, Rick & Shadow

Rick · 13-04-2006, 09:49

I agree with you. In fact, I never joined in on youth baseball games because all of the men "in charge" were yellers belittling the kids who were only there to learn and perhaps (what a concept) even have a good time. For me the time was ruined and a waste.

Similarly I have rarely joined in sailing races because of the extreme machismo evidenced in most of the males (and some females if one can visualize that) which, for me, ruined the fun of the event.

markpj23 · 13-04-2006, 10:11

Man - THANK YOU for confirming that what I have experienced is common. At least we can all get a group hug..

I'm not a screamer. I DO use a 'command voice' when needed to avoid confusion - taught from years as deck officer on Navy ships. I have not in my mind yelled once aboard our boat, yet my wife will tell you otherwise. I have when necessary said things in urgent situations that she has 'heard' as me yelling at her.

"Honey you are way right of the channel. Turn left please."
"Why? It looks OK to me... "
"Look at the bouy line - don't you see that you're way right? Please come left now, there are rocks over here."

(minor course correction) and after several minutes as the boat gets set even closer to the rocks....

"Honey you have got to come hard left - hard left!"
"Don't yell at me.... "

And we can all fill in the rest from memory.

Two things probably needed in my case: I need to soften my 'command voice' and my mate really needs to be able to take direction without feeling as if it's a personal criticism.

If anyone has an easy fix for this - speak up and be a hero!
:cubalibre

S/V Elusive · 13-04-2006, 11:52

Scott - considering how you do with driving directions under the BEST of conditions, I'm surprised you didn't leave it in Susan's hands to begin with. It would be one way to get to Mexico... :::running and ducking::::

**Alan Wheeler** · 13-04-2006, 12:28

Knottygirlz, you sure you ain't Rick posting

Knottyboys, Rick mate, hold on to that one. She's a rare breed.

Joli · 13-04-2006, 14:43

knottybuoyz, have her hold the end in her right hand and lay it over the part and twist (holding both the part and end when twisting ) the rabbit is then through the hole. Then behind the tree and back in the hole. Easy to show hard to describe. One handed bowline.

Rick, you should have raced with us we very rarely yelled, only when the beer ran out.

You should only yell because of danger or weather. If you yell at other times it is because you did not pre-plan your manuevers. As boats get bigger it becomes much more important to pre-plan.

OK, were pinned against the dock and its blowing a solid 22 puffs to 27 how are we going to get off. Lets run spring from the stern cleat to the as far forward as possible, place the square fender on the transom corner, and then we'll drop all the lines but that one, we will then will back against the spring to pop the bow out to power off the dock. If that does not get our bow out far enough to power off we'll let the boat lay back against the dock, remove the aft spring and take it forward, we'll power forward, capture the last post with an open loop, both ends on board, we'll let the bow go forward of the post by 15 feet or so and then stop the forward motion with the line cleated, and then we'll pivot on the forward post until we can back the boat off taking the bow line with us.

These are the conversations that need to take place when manuevering and it is good to use sketches if everyone is not totally clear about what is going to be done.

Sandero · 13-04-2006, 17:12

My wife does not care to learn a thing about the boat or sailing. She has no interest in the mechanical world. She is lovely company and she does the galley when we are not underway... and cleans. She does help raise and lower the main... And that is fine with me.

I think I would be more frustrated with "half a sailor" then one who is a passenger. I essentially single hand and when less then competant sailors of any gender try to help... I worry. People DO want to help and you shouldn't yell at them... but it sure can be frustrating when they do things "their way".

The key thing is safety... everything else doesn't matter that much...

13-04-2006, 17:32

Cruising sailors aboard the boat are in a unique situation. In most things, both are equal, and accordingly, the decisions of both are carry equal weight. On a boat, there can only be one captain. The safety of the vessel relies on it. It does not matter if that captain is the husband, or the wife, but the person who is crew must be able to accept orders from the captain. To question those orders, or even the tone in which those orders were delivered should be left for discussion after the order is carried out. There are good captains and bad captains out there, and if you choose to act like Captain Bly, do not expect your mate to enjoy sailing with you. This does not excuse the crew from the duties necessary to maintain the safety of the vessel. It is a hard thing to react as crew, when you are an equal partner in the vessel, but democracy is not in the best interest of safety.
Thomas, I admit, that when people give me driving directions, I am better off handing them to Susan to navigate, but as you may recall, on the water, when no reference is in site, I can pinpoint my location by intuition.

Knottygirlz · 14-04-2006, 06:33

"[quote=Joli]knottybuoyz, have her hold the end in her right hand and lay it over the part and twist (holding both the part and end when twisting ) the rabbit is then through the hole. Then behind the tree and back in the hole. Easy to show hard to describe. One handed bowline."

Well now I know what I have been doing wrong....I've been using a mouse coming out of the hole and around that tree...should have been a rabbit!

Actually I have practice ropes and I will sit and practice, practice, practice...finally I will tie the bowline sucessfully 10 times...yeah! I'm good to go! Then we get on the boat, pull into one of our favourite coves and I try to tie the knot...nope. can't do it.....looks like there is alot more practie in store for me.....

Lori, Rick and Shadow

annqueue · 17-04-2006, 20:02

Coming from an *extremely* quiet family, I can relate to women who know when their sweetie is yelling even if he doesn't raise his voice. The best advice I can give is that "please" and/or "thank you" work wonders, even if they come on the heels of a necessary command voice in a dangerous situation. Then follow with a calm explanation of why that command voice became necessary. *Consistent* use of these words also works wonders, for two reasons: because I know a thank you will follow along with an explanation of what just happened that I missed; and because I know from consistent history that this isn't really my sweetie yelling at me, this is a situation that needs everyone's full attention NOW.

BC Mike · 17-04-2006, 20:26

And folks on the dock heard me.
As part of the adult sailing classes I took two ladies sailing last Saturday. It was to get to know the boat parts and basic sailing / docking.
Later I asked the other skippers this question " did you instruct your crew not to jump off the pointy end on to the dock " No one gave that warning, but the lady I posted on the pointy end did just that. As I saw her about to leap I guess I could have said in a soft voice with no hint of drama " Excuse me for interrupting but would you be so kind as to stay on the boat until we have finished docking " but time seemed to be of the essence so I yelled " don't jump " but it was too late. She made the gap over the water but crumbled when she hit the dock. She will probably have bruises and aches later. From now on I will instruct all passengers not to jump. I had of course explained the game plan for docking, but I did not specifically say do not jump.
Please forgive me for yelling.
Michael

17-04-2006, 21:32

Sometimes it has to be done, but this is clearly different from the original issue. You are in a captain/crew situation. Sometimes orders must be yelled to make an immediate point. This is quite different than the situation I described earlier. The yelling that is at issue is an unnecessary attack on someone for reasons that do not present an immediate danger to the person or the boat. OTOH, had you yelled at the student, a split second earlier, she could have tried to abort the leap, and been off balance enough to end up in the water. Could have been much worse. Not sure what I would have done.

Knottygirlz · 18-04-2006, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by annqueue

The best advice I can give is that "please" and/or "thank you" work wonders, even if they come on the heels of a necessary command voice in a dangerous situation. Then follow with a calm explanation of why that command voice became necessary. *Consistent* use of these words also works wonders, for two reasons: because I know a thank you will follow along with an explanation of what just happened that I missed; and because I know from consistent history that this isn't really my sweetie yelling at me, this is a situation that needs everyone's full attention NOW.

Annqueue,

That is a good communications system that you have. I like iit because of the respect you are showing to each other. All couples can set up a similar system that works, but it has to cut both ways. For example, do you use the "please" and "thank you" rules on the occasion that you raise your voice? (not trying to offnd you, I suspect you do

) My point is that if women want to be treated a certain way, then they should treat their partner the same way.....the 'ole treat others as you want to be treated.

Lori, Rick and Shadow

Knottygirlz · 18-04-2006, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC Mike C

Please forgive me for yelling.

Yell. Scream if you must. Explain or appolgize afterwards if you think it is appropriate, but for goodness sake, when it comes to imminent peril of life or limb, then yell! Being unhappy, but safe and alive is always better than being happy and dead.

Lori, Rick and Shadow