Single Handling with Wheel vs Tiller

[glenn.225]

So, I am kicking about the idea of up sizing a little to something about 33 feet (the max of my slip). I really like sailing my little boat but she is size limited below and I’m a bit tired of stooping to go to the head or the v-berth. Also, I would like to spend a little more time onboard than day sailing and the occasional weekend, plus maybe venturing further afield.


The Vega has a great cockpit layout (at least in my opinion), she is tiller steered, with the rudder post at the rear of the cockpit sole, all the mast lines are led to the cabin top, the jib sheet winches are mounted towards the forward part of the coamings, instruments are mounted on the rear of the cabin either side of the companion way and the twin main sheets (German rigged) are just aft of center (I removed the traveler a few years ago). With the way she is set up I can do just about everything from the forward portion of the cockpit just by standing up or changing sides, everything including engine controls is “to hand” you might say. The Admiral likes to sit/lie across the aft end the cockpit (with her glass of wine). I and other guests, if they are non-sailor sit along the cockpit sides. I can comfortably operate the boat with three or four others in the cockpit, without having anyone move around much and they’re not in the way.


I like actually sailing the boat and as I do most all the sailing, I like the functional items around me. Although I am not a racer, I want a boat that is a good performer, enjoyable to sail and relatively easy to go from sailing to motoring and vice versa. For instance, on mine as I motor out past the breakwater, I stand in the froward portion of the cockpit with the tiller between my knees, raise the sails, sheet in a bit and turn off the engine while barely moving my feet. I then sit down, (sometimes set up the tiller pilot) and trim as required to enjoy the sail. I have two- line reefing so I can reef without leaving the cockpit. The only time I leave the cockpit is for changing the jib (hanked on), flying the spinnaker or tightening the lazy jacks.


Now as I am looking about for another “new to me” boat, almost all have a wheel and the cockpits seems to be divided into two or more functional areas. So, my question is, how do you single-handers manage the boat?

[Ziggy]

There is no question singlehanding is more difficult with a wheel. In my case, I can (sort of) tack or jibe standing forward of the wheel where I can reach both winches, and hold the wheel in position with some part of my anatomy. However, I consider the autopilot absolutely essential. I don't have a remote, but I think it would also help.


My advice is to look for a tiller steered boat, even if they are more rare on the North American market..

[Mike OReilly]

My boat is 37 feet and 15 tons. She has a tiller. So it's certainly possible to find larger tiller-driven boats. But they are rarer as size goes up.

[chrisr]

99% of your time single handing or offshore, will be in autopilot. this allows you to move about the boat when you need to, and relax when you want to

it's easier to set up an autopilot on wheel steering

cheers,

[Stu Jackson]

Here's some I put together for our C34


Single Handing 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5445.0.html

Single Handing 101.1 Midship Cleats Pictures http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4921.0.html

Single Handing 101.2 HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5....html#msg33766

Single Handing 101.3 Mainsail Cam Cleat photo (thx to Noah) https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,....html#msg88506

[glenn.225]

Thank Stu
I have read tomorrow, bed time now.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Here's some I put together for our C34


Single Handing 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5445.0.html

Single Handing 101.1 Midship Cleats Pictures http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4921.0.html

Single Handing 101.2 HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5....html#msg33766

Single Handing 101.3 Mainsail Cam Cleat photo (thx to Noah) https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,....html#msg88506

Master Chief, I went through this, but pertaining specifically to the question of tiller-vs-wheel, what are the relevant parts?

I, too, am considering a 34-foot cruiser with a tiller, having sailed extensively on J-30 and J-27 with tillers.

[GILow]

I haven't sailed anything bigger than 25 feet with a tiller, so I can't really compare things.

But my wheel steered 42 footer is easily single-handed because, as mentioned upthread, the autopilot does a lot of the work for you in terms.of freeing up hands etc.

I just hit the tack button then get to work on the sheets for the yankee and staysail.

I cannot imagine handling much in the way of decent sized winches while trying to brace the tiller between my knees.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by chrisr

it's easier to set up an autopilot on wheel steering

Why? I don't think it's true at all, either way is the same effort.

wheel steering has inherently more friction, and more points of failure. This is why emergency steering is generally tiller for wheel steered boats!

Wheels usually (but not always) results in slower maximum speed of rudder movement which is more suitable for larger vessels. It requires more physical effort to move the rudder, but potentially can hold position with less effort if the rudder is not balanced. Smaller boats need to react more quickly to deal with waves making wheels less desirable.

Originally Posted by GILow

But my wheel steered 42 footer is easily single-handed because, as mentioned upthread, the autopilot does a lot of the work for you in terms.of freeing up hands etc.

I just hit the tack button then get to work on the sheets for the yankee and staysail.

I cannot imagine handling much in the way of decent sized winches while trying to brace the tiller between my knees.

There is no reason you cannot hit "tack" on a tiller steered boat and have the same as your wheel steered one.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

…

There is no reason you cannot hit "tack" on a tiller steered boat and have the same as your wheel steered one.

Good to know. The only tiller based autopilot I’ve owned didn’t have that function (or maybe it did, perhaps I should have read the manual…).

[seandepagnier]

There is no difference in a tiller vs wheel autopilot besides perhaps the mechanism that moves the rudder itself which varies considerably from boat to boat from linear, rotary, hydraulic etc. The sensors and electronics don't know the difference.

[double u]

unfortunate though it is, buying a newer production boat one has to put up with three (imho) quite negative points:
Wheel steering
saildrive
swept back spreaders

hardly any way around these

[OldManMirage]

All I can say is that I am trying to learn to do just that. My last boat was a Cape Dory 28 with a tiller. I usually was singlehanding her and I could do everything myself easily. Main and jib sheets were always right at hand and the tiller was easily controlled between your legs.

Now we have an Endeavour 32 with a wheel and I'm having to figure out all new ways to do things. I do have an autopilot and it is a big help, but I hate relying on it 100%.

One change I think I'm going to make is going to a double mainsheet setup. I'll be moving the mainsail controls from the track at the front of the cockpit to right back by the wheel where I'll be able to reach them. I also may "downsize" my wheel just a bit to make it easier to get around it.

It is definitely taking some adjustments on my part, but plenty of people do it so I know I'll figure out a way. We love the boat, it sails beautifully and handles well, so we're really happy with the choice.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by chrisr

99% of your time single handing or offshore, will be in autopilot. this allows you to move about the boat when you need to, and relax when you want to

it's easier to set up an autopilot on wheel steering

cheers,

I agree with the use of an autopilot, but I'm thinking setting up an autopilot for a tiller is waay easier than for a wheel.

It's just so simple to drill a hole in the tiller and one in the port or starboard lazarette lid then wire it up. Done!

Most of the time though a boat over 25' with tiller steering usually already has an autopilot or the holes and wiring are there from when it did.

That's how my boat came with an old Navico autopilot.

That failed so I now have a Simrad and a Raymarine.

The autopilot for me (a single hand sailor) comes on as soon as I'm in the creek because that's when I go forward to raise the mainsail

[pjShap]

I singlehand a 45' boat, and while it's possible with just a reliable autopilot, I find having a remote control is nearly essential. It makes it safe for me to work at the mast or on the foredeck, especially when sailing in Maine with dense lobster pots. I can take my time reefing, without feeling like I have to rush. I don't know that the significant difference is wheel or tiller- for me the strong, reliable autopilot is the important part. Raising and lowering the main, reefing, deploying a spinnaker pole for winging out a jib downwind- all require me to be out of the cockpit and I rely on the autopilot.