Single Handling with Wheel vs Tiller

[MicHughV]

Why not use both.

On my first boat I had a Monitor vane gear.....boat was a center cockpit, wheel steering...running the lines from the Monitor to the wheel was a bit challenging, but I concocted a good solution. I used the Monitor most of the time, but in light winds, had a wheel electric autopilot. Though meant for smaller boats, it steered my boat without any problems whatsoever in moderate weather conditions. A tiller on a center cockpit is obviously out of the question.

In either case, getting the boat trimmed correctly is key for either one.

The vane sails to the wind...the electric sails to a compass course. Both require diligence to keep you out of trouble.

[nortonscove]

Wheel with autopilot is easy enough. I've limited experience with tiller but what I have turned me off. I hated approaching the dock or mooring while bent over to access the engine controls. Our boat is 40 feet and easier to sail single than the old 30. Found it surprising how much easier it was given I do most operating myself and my wife refers to herself as an ornament while we sail.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by KompetentKrew

What model of 46fter please, @Kd9truck? I short handed an Xp 44 a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure that I'd like to singlehand one. I feel like you'd be quite reliant on the autopilot.

45.1 actually, sorry 46 was a type O, Jeanneau 44i is actually 45.1. I will say with manual 2 speed wenches and Dacron cruising sails it’s about the limit of single handing. I use a DeWalt Right angle Drill to hoist my main…and as an emergency Genoa roller furler.
I have no qualms about using Autopilot, I run a Raymarine with radar and AIS , i can sail without power but I don’t need to, and I find my systems run best when they run. As for sailing it , I focus on keeping everything balanced)

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My boat is 37 feet and 15 tons. She has a tiller. So it's certainly possible to find larger tiller-driven boats. But they are rarer as size goes up.

Mike, yes I of course know, there are larger tiller steered boats. However among the vast majority of the 32/33 foot boats they are not common. Maybe I can be lucky enough to find one.



On another note I hope you get back to your boat soon. Winters there can be harsh, I grew up on the south shore of the Bay of Islands. Was talking to my brother yesterday they have about five feet of snow in Corner Brook still.


Cheers

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

45.1 actually, sorry 46 was a type O, Jeanneau 44i is actually 45.1. I will say with manual 2 speed wenches and Dacron cruising sails it’s about the limit of single handing. I use a DeWalt Right angle Drill to hoist my main…and as an emergency Genoa roller furler.
I have no qualms about using Autopilot, I run a Raymarine with radar and AIS , i can sail without power but I don’t need to, and I find my systems run best when they run. As for sailing it , I focus on keeping everything balanced)

It has much better positioned jib sheet winches for singlehanding than the Xp 44.

The only reason for my concern over dependency on the autopilot is to be able to sail comfortably in case there's a failure.

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by double u

unfortunate though it is, buying a newer production boat one has to put up with three (imho) quite negative points:
Wheel steering
saildrive
swept back spreaders

hardly any way around these

Yes that seems to be the issue, I could do without either of these.
Fortunately most of the boats I'm looking at (80's and 90's) have at least straight spreaders and shaft drive.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by glenn.225

Mike, yes I of course know, there are larger tiller steered boats. However among the vast majority of the 32/33 foot boats they are not common. Maybe I can be lucky enough to find one.

True. My previous boat was a 34-footer, 6-tons, and it had a wheel. My current boat is 37-footer, 15 tons, and it has a tiller. Like you, I prefer a tiller, but I don't think it's a big deal either way. Both work fine. It's more about the cockpit layout than the choice of wheel vs tiller.

Originally Posted by glenn.225

On another note I hope you get back to your boat soon. Winters there can be harsh, I grew up on the south shore of the Bay of Islands. Was talking to my brother yesterday they have about five feet of snow in Corner Brook still.

Thanks Glenn. They sure know the meaning of winter over there. We spent a few seasons in the Bay of Islands (Corner Brook). Was always amazed to see the snow levels as high as our boat gunwhales some years.

I've sailed around the east side now (Lewisporte). They don't get anywhere near the snow as the west, which is a good thing since my winter cover got destroyed a few months ago. Covid-gods willing, I'll be back there in a couple months.

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Here's some I put together for our C34


Single Handing 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5445.0.html

Single Handing 101.1 Midship Cleats Pictures http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4921.0.html

Single Handing 101.2 HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5....html#msg33766

Single Handing 101.3 Mainsail Cam Cleat photo (thx to Noah) https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,....html#msg88506

Stu
Had read through these, a few hints here. But still seems like a lot of running around the cockpit to actually sail the boat.
Not so concerned about docking as that just needs to be prepared for before hand and the sails are down and secured.

On my slip the I keep the dock lines permanently attached and as I come in I pick up the (call it a rear midship spring line) drop it over the cleat and it stops me and pulls into the dock if the wind is pushing me off I just drop it into gear.

[LouK]

So there you are- some hate tillers, others hate wheels. I’ve had both and prefer the latter though i don’t have an AP on my 40’er; there’s nothing better on those lazy light wind days when you lean back, hook your heel on the wheel and just sail. You’re going to work with whatever you wind up buying, I’d suggest you consider other things that make a boat such as cabin type & accommodations, whether you want to step across a cockpit traveler and just simply livability.

You’re going to figure out how to best raise your sails, tend your trim no matter what type of helm you have. I’ve single handled wheel boats for overnight races and without an AP and it can be done. Don’t overthink this and keep you from buying a good, affordable boat that sails well for whatever purpose intended.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by KompetentKrew

It has much better positioned jib sheet winches for singlehanding than the Xp 44.

The only reason for my concern over dependency on the autopilot is to be able to sail comfortably in case there's a failure.

Yea, cool I get that, the helms are is very light, the helm tells me to reduce sail I get after it, I take it in and out of auto all the time, but mostly I don’t kneed to. If I go bellow, if I make a sandwich,if I use the head, if I go foward, if I need to dig into a lazerette, I put it on reflexively. I can lock the wheel manually in all these cases as well, that’s no worries mate.

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by OldManMirage

All I can say is that I am trying to learn to do just that. My last boat was a Cape Dory 28 with a tiller. I usually was singlehanding her and I could do everything myself easily. Main and jib sheets were always right at hand and the tiller was easily controlled between your legs.

Now we have an Endeavour 32 with a wheel and I'm having to figure out all new ways to do things. I do have an autopilot and it is a big help, but I hate relying on it 100%.

One change I think I'm going to make is going to a double mainsheet setup. I'll be moving the mainsail controls from the track at the front of the cockpit to right back by the wheel where I'll be able to reach them. I also may "downsize" my wheel just a bit to make it easier to get around it.

It is definitely taking some adjustments on my part, but plenty of people do it so I know I'll figure out a way. We love the boat, it sails beautifully and handles well, so we're really happy with the choice.

I don't mind so much relying on the auto pilot, mine works very well. But like you I'm trying to wrap my head around moving all over the cockpit to sail the boat.

I like to take my son and 2 grand-kids out day sailing, I'm sailing the boat and he's keeping the kids on board, so having a place for them to sit out of the way is nice.

I know others that send the kids below until the boat is straightened out, but in variable winds like we have here in the summer I can see it being a challenge with small children aboard.


The two sheet main is nice, very easy to set the boom right where you want it, and it gets the sheet out of the centre of the cockpit. Only issue I have had, is if you need to "blow the main" make sure you get the windward sheet first.

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

I know you're all talking about slightly bigger boats ... but my 27ft boat is wheel steered, and I'm single handing most of the time.

Simply I never stand behind the wheel ... most of the time I'm sitting on one side (infront of the pedestal), and the aft hand is holding the wheel. But when tacking etc I can stand infront of the pedestal and reach behind to steer while still able to reach all the winches etc.

My autopilot is great but in winds that are both too light and too strong, the "tack" button doesn't always do the job and sometimes leaves the boat in irons, so now I rarely let the autopilot steer through a tack.

The only real problem with steering from in front of the wheel is that I can't see the binnacle mounted compass.

This is more of the situation I was thinking of. Yes the autopilot is not perfect and I've encountered this often but with tiller pilot I simply hit the - or + 10 degree button a couple of times or lift it off and shove the tiller over.

[colinalleck]

Having owned and S&S 34 for 25 years I did a lot of single handed sailing. The advantage of the tiller is you have a better feel of the boat when it is balanced and also being able to fold the till Robert gives you more room in the cockpit when lounging about. I would suggest 37 foot is about the maximum for a tiller steered Boat . I currently own Jeanneau 45 which is wheel steered. Both boats are doable single-handed but auto pilot is a must for which ever Boat you go with. As it frees you up from becoming a slave to the tiller and You are able to take a leak or have a cup of coffee when you want.
Good luck

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Wheel with autopilot is easy enough. I've limited experience with tiller but what I have turned me off. I hated approaching the dock or mooring while bent over to access the engine controls. Our boat is 40 feet and easier to sail single than the old 30. Found it surprising how much easier it was given I do most operating myself and my wife refers to herself as an ornament while we sail.

I guess it's how your boat is set up. On mine the single lever control is low down as well. When docking I use my left foot mostly, that way I can keep eyes on the dock.

[glenn.225]

Originally Posted by LouK

So there you are- some hate tillers, others hate wheels. I’ve had both and prefer the latter though i don’t have an AP on my 40’er; there’s nothing better on those lazy light wind days when you lean back, hook your heel on the wheel and just sail. You’re going to work with whatever you wind up buying, I’d suggest you consider other things that make a boat such as cabin type & accommodations, whether you want to step across a cockpit traveler and just simply livability.

You’re going to figure out how to best raise your sails, tend your trim no matter what type of helm you have. I’ve single handled wheel boats for overnight races and without an AP and it can be done. Don’t overthink this and keep you from buying a good, affordable boat that sails well for whatever purpose intended.

Yeah that about sums it up. And accommodations below is really the only reason I'm looking for another boat. Just have to open my eyes to a new paradigm.