Single Handling with Wheel vs Tiller

[DMF Sailing]

A previous poster mentioned as an advantage of the tiller the ability to change positions.

DMF Sailing Experience regular Kira is only happy to demonstrate on a J 27 in Massachusetts Bay.

And DMF Sailing itself is only happy to demonstrate the same with a wheel in Boston Harbor.

This is all predicated on mild conditions, however.

[ftamburrano]

Very simply:
steering with a rudder allows the feeling of the boat, and whether the sails are well tuned, and helps you to equilibrate the boat; conversely, the effort is higher, proportionally to the boat size. Steering with a wheel is dumb, in the sense there is not the communication from the boat to the helmsman about the relative pull of the sails, but the effort is demultiplied. Conclusion: it is better the stick as long as you manage the effort. Normally the limit is around 32-34 feet: above with a wheel. Of course, cruising for long hours or days, os sailing singlehand, requires a pilot.

[El Pinguino]

I had one of these on my 25 foot tiller steered Vertue in the 1980s
https://www.raymarine.com.au/view/index-id=346.html
It had a 'tack' function and it was 'stand alone' just needing 12V.
Or maybe mine was a Navico? Dunno... long time ago but was good.

Better than the bungee I used before.

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by glenn.225

I don't mind so much relying on the auto pilot, mine works very well. But like you I'm trying to wrap my head around moving all over the cockpit to sail the boat.

I like to take my son and 2 grand-kids out day sailing, I'm sailing the boat and he's keeping the kids on board, so having a place for them to sit out of the way is nice.

I know others that send the kids below until the boat is straightened out, but in variable winds like we have here in the summer I can see it being a challenge with small children aboard.


The two sheet main is nice, very easy to set the boom right where you want it, and it gets the sheet out of the centre of the cockpit. Only issue I have had, is if you need to "blow the main" make sure you get the windward sheet first.

It is a challenge, and I'm still sorting it out. One other option that I have is a wheel brake on the pedestal. I can lock the wheel briefly while I'm resetting the jib after tacking - if I'm not already using the autopilot. Or if it quits working, so it is like a backup.

I was down on the boat yesterday and looking at where I could put the blocks for a twin mainsheet arraignment and I like where I think it would end up, it would be easy to handle it without moving around the wheel, so I keep leaning toward that. And it would really open up the front of the cockpit - which would be a benefit when I have some guests on board, like your situation.

We're going sailing again tomorrow so I'll get another chance to play with stuff, Lol. I'll try and film a few tacks and see how it looks, maybe they'll end up in my next video. I like putting in that stuff, especially when its funny !

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

I saw zero "jammed roller furlings"
Zero Tiller mounted Autopilots.

Boatyarddog

If you need to see the tiller autopilot check the second video above.. post #22

Here are others showing the Simrad and Raymarine tiller autopilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_qj1Y5x8yU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

I saw zero "jammed roller furlings"
Zero Tiller mounted Autopilots.

Boatyarddog

You can't actually see the jammed furler but the jib is flopping around a bit so had the roller furler been functioning properly, I would have adjusted it so it would have been tighter for a nicer shape

I decided to fix it at the dock after I got home 4 hours later. I just lower the whole sail after I got into the shelter of my creek.

Also, you can hear the autopilot correcting course at the start of this video.....

One more tiller shot while motoring in my Creek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtdrmAqojs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNl2tPRC-Tw&t=2s

[chasfgr]

If you must single=hand ( I've done so with 3 boats over 33 years), don't consider a wheel steeing - you have to use an intermediate electic drive, instead of a direct windvane.


Whilst wheel steering is essential above a 33' boat, I'd stick with the smaller waterline lenfth, rather than invite the disadvantages of wheel steering.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

If you must single=hand ( I've done so with 3 boats over 33 years), don't consider a wheel steeing - you have to use an intermediate electic drive, instead of a direct windvane.


Whilst wheel steering is essential above a 33' boat, I'd stick with the smaller waterline lenfth, rather than invite the disadvantages of wheel steering.

I can’t imagine tacking with a windvane would be all that easy.

Also, I’m sure there are many who would challenge your assertion about wheel steering being “essential” above 33 feet. Myself included. I’ve crewed on a tiller steered 40 footer and it seemed perfectly workable. (I didn’t steer but the skipper was a 60 year old female who handled the boat like a big dinghy.)

[GILow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Why would you do that when you can purchase a tiller autopilot for around $500 or less and install it yourself in a couple hours?

Plus with a tiller you are usually up near the hatch/companionway right beside the winches with autopilot on or off.

Well, for a start, most tiller pilots don’t work for long on a 14 ton boat. I’m guessing a $500 tiller pilot would fail in the first hour.

Second, the cockpit of a 42 footer leaves you a lot further away from the winches and hatch than a 27 footer. (My new 44 footer is even worse, picture attached is the same make and model, but in WAAAAY better condition than mine.)

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GILow

Well, for a start, most tiller pilots don’t work for long on a 14 ton boat. I’m guessing a $500 tiller pilot would fail in the first hour.

Second, the cockpit of a 42 footer leaves you a lot further away from the winches and hatch than a 27 footer. (My new 44 footer is even worse, picture attached is the same make and model, but in WAAAAY better condition than mine.)Attachment 254592

You are spinning the post I made.

You mentioned sailing with the tiller between you legs.

You don't need to have the tiller between your legs with a tiller autopilot.

As far as tiller pilots not working long on a 14 ton boat, you do understand that you have to select the correct one right for your size boat?

The pypilot is another alternative which it appears can be used on wheel or tiller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQuBwLSMSxI

[GILow]

Originally Posted by KompetentKrew

I have a 40' tiller steered boat, and it is quite easy - if you need both hands for the gib sheet winches then you either push the tiller away with your knee or foot, or hook your knee over it. Once the sheet is in the self-tailer then you tiller with one hand and winch with the other.

I have not singlehanded a wheel-helmed boat and I agree with the other comments that a reliable autopilot is the most important factor, but I was able to single-hand my boat quite adequately during the period I was making the autopilot reliable. I find it hard to imagine a wheel-helmed boat as easier to singlehand.

My boat is a Van De Stadt Caribbean 40 built by a small jachtwerf to the previous owner's specification and I think that not only did he have very clear ideas about singlehanding, he also had quite good ones.

Lacking a hydrovane, I would prefer a quadrant on the rudder shaft and a below-decks motor for the autopilot, rather than the present tiller-pilot. With the autopilot engaged it would be nice to flip the tiller up out of the way and have more space in the cockpit.

I do love VdS boats, the Caribbean 40 looks terrific.

It seems the cockpit is optimised for the skipper to be right at the stern with the primaries close to hand. I could imagine this would work well when tacking, with wheel or tiller. I guess a lot comes down to cockpit layout. I actually arranged my cockpit on the Swanson so I can sail the boat from in front of the wheel. No good for racing, but very, very good for cruising. (I rely almost entirely on the autopilot when under way and like to keep myself as fresh as possible for when things go pear shaped.)

The new boat, a Kelly Peterson 44, has a sprawling cockpit with winches in a different postcode to the wheel. I’m not yet even remotely sure how I will end up sailing her, except to note that her directional stability may be able to be used to some advantage. (No idea how, but I think it is important.)

I agree with the idea of a quadrant mounted AP. Aside from then cockpit space issue, I also like the AP drive to be somewhere safe from the elements. The early Raymarine Tillerpilot models had troubles with water ingress, I remember people made sunbrella covers for them to try to prolong their lives.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

….
As far as tiller pilots not working long on a 14 ton boat, you do understand that you have to select the correct one right for your size boat?

Yep, and that means the $500 model you recommend is not suitable.

Actually, I don’t know of any that could handle the Swanson 42 with its keel hung rudder. The forces are crazy.

[Jim Cate]

As far as tiller pilots not working long on a 14 ton boat, you do understand that you have to select the correct one right for your size boat?

thomm, perhaps you could direct Matt towards such a pilot. When I last looked, there were no such beasts being advertised.

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

thomm, perhaps you could direct Matt towards such a pilot. When I last looked, there were no such beasts being advertised.

Jim

Come on guys.

This is 2022.

Ever heard of google?

Check out Pelagic.

10. How large a boat can the standard Pelagic tiller pilot be installed on? As stated above, it's really about rudder load. That said, the standard tiller pilot is generally good to about 38'. For larger boats we recommend our heavy tiller system. Early versions have been installed on the 60', 10,000 kg Bob Perry designed slender hull s/v Francis Lee, AKA Sliver, a Valiant 40 and an Andrews 43 among others. If in doubt, email or call to discuss your specific application.

This took me maybe 2 minutes to find, but I am using the really fast computer I just built up in my old Vista Tower.

It has an AS Rock 510 Motherboard

Intel I5 Chip 11th Generation

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-1160.../dp/B08X67YZBL

LGA 1200 socket

500 GB Solid Stae drive

24" monitor

650 watt Corsair Power Supply

etc, etc

But now I'm thinking I need a faster one.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by GILow

Good to know. The only tiller based autopilot I’ve owned didn’t have that function (or maybe it did, perhaps I should have read the manual…).

Yes, it almost certainly did. The first, basic, pilot I got 30 years ago had autotack. You just press two buttons together.


I've singlehanded wheel and tiller. Different, but I wouldn't say that either was better. It comes down to the setup. I will say, though, that many boats trap you in the back half of the cockpit. The obvious solution is to steer from in front of or beside the wheel when maneuvering.