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Old 13-05-2017, 16:02   #16
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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I am not opposed to racing and appreciate that when you race you need to push it try to beat the competition. In fact, 20 or so years ago I inquired about going in the Clipper race (or its pre-cursor) but it was just too expensive, especially when you built in the cost of going to Britain from Canada to train.

My comments were simply about the different mindset of racing and cruising and how the latter can contribute to safety - a good thing since the boat is likely much smaller, the crew much smaller, and you may not have every costly bell and whistle.
Firstly, yes, the injuries, & lost crew are very sad. Though given the choice, going out while sailing is near the top of my list. Not that I'm in a rush.

I do hear you about the above. But... I'm the sailor I am today because of having so much experience of being on, & going past the edge. As well as learning to recover from same. And now that depth of experience allows me to coach others to learn where the edge is, to let them make mistakes & break stuff, with me only stepping in if someone's about to get hurt, or something truly expensive is about to be destroyed.
That's how skippers of boats like that, or in the VOR get qualified for the job.

So that without that experience under my belt, I couldn't function as a "risk manager", AKA; Captain, Coach, Sailing Master. Nor could I hop onto an unprepared/underprepaired boat, with or without knowing the crew, & deliver her from X to Y.

And bottom line, the sport of sailing doesn't advance without folks pushing things. Via racing in particular. Both the boats & gear, & the skippers & crew.

For example, 20yrs ago not 1 cruiser in 100 knew what Polars are. Or had heard about sea anchors & series drogues. All of which came to yachting pretty much via racing first.
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Old 13-05-2017, 16:13   #17
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

Thanks for pointing out the crews poor positioning I knew something was off but couldn't quite place it
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Old 13-05-2017, 16:27   #18
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

Loving all the armchair experts here
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Old 13-05-2017, 16:40   #19
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pirate Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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Loving all the armchair experts here
We try to keep folks amused..
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Old 13-05-2017, 16:47   #20
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

Years ago some old sailor tried to explain to me how two or three seemingly minor problems happening in quick succession can lead to a catastrophic problem. There might be a Phd in catastrophy theory waiting for someone.
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Old 13-05-2017, 17:34   #21
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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Years ago some old sailor tried to explain to me how two or three seemingly minor problems happening in quick succession can lead to a catastrophic problem. There might be a Phd in catastrophy theory waiting for someone.
You've heard the expression/proverb "For want of a nail... the kingdom was lost".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:57   #22
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

AiniA-

<<too expensive, especially when you built in the cost of going to Britain from Canada to train.>>

I read this first as 'by train,' and i thought "yeah, that would be pricey..."
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Old 14-05-2017, 07:25   #23
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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Such matters leave me utterly perplexed and confused. I have a light aircraft and can be tracked on any flight anywhere, yet a massive Boeing disappears. Likewise, these are high budget and high tech vessels, yet the MOB obviously wasn't wearing a relatively cheap MOB tracking device? A blip would show up on their GPS automatically towards which the helmsman steers. 1hr 20 mins???? Yup, I don't understand it.
Hopefully you do understand the difference between flying your plane over a populated land mass with full radar coverage and flying thousands of miles offshore in one of the most desolate areas on Earth, don't you? And you also understand that a MOB device doesn't pull someone out of the ocean onto a high freeboard vessel in seas heavy enough to wash someone overboard in the first place? I think you perhaps extrapolate too much between the controlled and relatively benign conditions you operate in and the extreme conditions of those two situations. They are alike in name only. The rest of the world aren't idiots!
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Old 14-05-2017, 08:01   #24
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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AiniA-

<<too expensive, especially when you built in the cost of going to Britain from Canada to train.>>

I read this first as 'by train,' and i thought "yeah, that would be pricey..."
Have you never heard of the Chunnel?
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Old 14-05-2017, 08:11   #25
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

The one thing that screams at me is the hanked on jibs.
Who sails hanked on jibs? Is it macho? Or can't Clipper afford the rollers?
Institutional craziness!!
Look at the big short handed boats, everything is on rollers.

Read how long it took them to get the jibs off. If they had been able to save that time they may have saved Sarah.
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Old 15-05-2017, 04:02   #26
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

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I guess my first indicator that is wasn't going to be good is noticing they are all wearing helmets
I have my cave diving "bump cap" aboard, but only cause it has a GoPro mounted to it, I never expect to wear it while sailing
I wear my old ski helmet when going aloft, if there is any kind of swing to the mast at all. Sometimes doesn't take much of a bump to bring on a serious or fatal head injury. Masts (and booms!) don't 'give' much at all.
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Old 15-05-2017, 13:53   #27
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Re: Report of deaths aboard Clipper Race boat.

Personal observations with no bias intended:

1. Generally, racing sailors are better sailors than cruising sailors
2. Most sailors confuse competence in coastal cruising with competence
in offshore cruising
3. If you're looking for something to blame . . . blame it on testosterone.
Some get it at work; some get it at play.
4. No one can really judge another unless they were THERE at the
moment when something happened.
5. There is a correlation between miles sailed in ALL conditions and
seamanship.
6. And, finally . . . the one's with the greatest "online" or "barstool"
bravado are usually the first to fold when conditions really turn bad.
The best sailor I've sailed with in the last 40 years is a 115 lb.
female that never folded when things got nasty.
What does this have to do with the above topic. Everything. Good luck and safe sailing.
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