Going in to get MOB

[DanielI]

The MOB thread got me thinking about this question: under what circumstances, if ever, is it appropriate to go in after a MOB? (I’m assuming a crew of more than 2).

This really has two parts. One is, having made it back to the MOB, going back to assist an impaired MOB back into the boat. But, in my case, sailing with two children, the younger of which just turned 6, I think if he went over (God forbid), either I or, more likely, my wife (who is the stronger swimmer) would go in after him. After all, for a young child the greatest risk is panic while waiting for rescue.

Two other considerations here: first, most people are assuming that an MOB situation will involve heavy seas, but that is not necessarily the case, particularly for a novice or young sailor. Second, we sail in a lake where a competent swimmer, especially in a life jacket, can almost certainly make it to shore safely without rescue unless injured or unusually heavy weather.

So, the “never go in after an MOB” rule might have exceptions. Anyone want to chime in with what the guidelines are?

[Snore]

It would be hard to give you a detailed answer. General concerns would be-

First, it would have to be fairly calm.

Second, since I do not allow crew to perform high-risk operations, I would have to be comfortable that if I was lost, the boat and crew would be okay.

Third, is mass. I am 6'3" 215-220, and am in pretty good shape. I would have to be confident that either I could maneuver the person, or they were responsive enough to assist in their self rescue.

Finally, this is every blue water master's nightmare. I pray I never have to make this call. It is also why I am beyond OCD about clipping in.

[JPA Cate]

A long time ago, I had the experience of being a water safety instructor, a certificate you get after lifesaving. In the lifesaving course, one of the things they teach you is what to do if the "victim" panics and tries to climb on you. If you are seriously entertaining the idea of jumping in after your child (and sometimes this decision is an impulse you act on, without thinking it through), I think you'd both do well to take a lifesaving course first. You will be taught to take them a flotation device, and also how to get away when the victim views you as a piece of dry land and climbs up on you [and they do]. Even a 6 year old who is panicked can do a world of harm. So learn some skills. Do not plan on reasoning with anyone who is panicked.

Which ever one of you is acting skipper that day really doesn't want to have to deal with two POB in the water. Double trouble. If you suddenly have 2 pob in the water, get on the radio and put out a Mayday, being sure to include your position, both by lat/lon and by geographical reference (500 m. SW of Green Point, or whatever it is.) Speak slowly and clearly. Repeat whole message. Then try to rescue the more vulnerable one first.

If you AND the kids wear flotation devices all the time above decks on the boat,* it is much more likely that the child won't panic in the water, and whoever is available can get the child back aboard. *Kids have less resistance to wearing them if you set a good example.

Swimming lessons for the kids will help you, too. You can remind them to float on their back like they learned, and wait for you to bring the boat back. Beginning swimming lessons are a lot about just "water proofing" kids, and beginning to swim, usually crawl stroke. They can go on and learn more if they're interested.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

Having brought two kids up on boats since they were 1 , firstly weld them into life jackets

Secondly kids ate likely to handle ending up in the water better then adults.

Teach them to swim as young as possible

So I’d be very very reluctant to go into the water as a gut reaction

Never have to rescue the rescuer

[Tin Tin]

I would be paranoid with young kids on the boat. Assume they have had swimming lessons. I would practice MOB maneuvers with the kids, throw a life jacket in and retrieve, have the kids participate in pointing assisting the helm. Practice under sail with no motor. Practice with kids in life jackets off the dinghy, get them used to keeping head clear, using the whistle etc. If I had kids on board i would have them wear an MOB alert device all the time and a pfd on deck. Having done all this then you should be reasonably confident about not diving in, but could if the remaining POB have practiced the situation before. Towing a rescue float around, even with an adult in it would probably be quicker than swimming,

[LittleWing77]

Nope. NEVER go in after an MOB.

+ everything Snore said.

LittleWing77

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

A long time ago, I had the experience of being a water safety instructor, a certificate you get after lifesaving. In the lifesaving course, one of the things they teach you is what to do if the "victim" panics and tries to climb on you. If you are seriously entertaining the idea of jumping in after your child (and sometimes this decision is an impulse you act on, without thinking it through), I think you'd both do well to take a lifesaving course first. You will be taught to take them a flotation device, and also how to get away when the victim views you as a piece of dry land and climbs up on you [and they do]. Even a 6 year old who is panicked can do a world of harm. So learn some skills. Do not plan on reasoning with anyone who is panicked.

Which ever one of you is acting skipper that day really doesn't want to have to deal with two POB in the water. Double trouble. If you suddenly have 2 pob in the water, get on the radio and put out a Mayday, being sure to include your position, both by lat/lon and by geographical reference (500 m. SW of Green Point, or whatever it is.) Speak slowly and clearly. Repeat whole message. Then try to rescue the more vulnerable one first.

If you AND the kids wear flotation devices all the time above decks on the boat,* it is much more likely that the child won't panic in the water, and whoever is available can get the child back aboard. *Kids have less resistance to wearing them if you set a good example.

Swimming lessons for the kids will help you, too. You can remind them to float on their back like they learned, and wait for you to bring the boat back. Beginning swimming lessons are a lot about just "water proofing" kids, and beginning to swim, usually crawl stroke. They can go on and learn more if they're interested.

Ann

This is goof advice. When I was young, I was trained and certified as a lifeguard. I was taught three same principles on how victims respond, and how to best disable them. Mind you this was for a swimming pool.

While there are many instances where a parent has saved a frowning child, there are also many where both persons perished.

When I was supporting MOB drills for safety at sea seminars, this topic would come up. I do not recall any exceptions to the "don't put a second person in the water" rule. That said, if in calm water and boat was stopped and victim needed help boarding, I might jump in. As mentioned before, a boat at 6 kts covers 200 yds in 60 seconds. Having two victims 100 yards apart (or more) sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for the memory Ann. Been a long time since I recall that training.

Peter

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

This is goof advice.

While there are many instances where a parent has saved a frowning child...

Sorry, Peter, but this is hilarious.

I say if they're frowning, leave them in the water...!

[jackdale]

1) Everyone wears a pdf when on board and under way.
2) Children are tethered.
3) Automatic personal AIS in each pfd (ideally).
4) Know and practice MOB techniques
a) under sail - upwind and downwind
b) under power - Anderson and Williamson turns
5) Conscious MOB
a) swim ladder in calm conditions.
b) Life Sling
6) Unconscious MOB
a) roll them in inflatable tender
7) Assume the HELP position in the water
a) DO NOT SWIM IN COLD WATER

There is probably more.

[Don C L]

So my kids have been growing up with our little boat and going out across to the local islands. My son was 4 when he started going out and of course he was always in his PFD and on someone's arm or tethered. And though we are pretty safe and I am pretty conservative in the conditions I'll go out in with them, the thought of them overboard is a nightmare. I had them practice swimming around the boat in their PFDs so they'd be used to it and not panic about it. And we practice the MOB steps which also helps them see that if it happens they don't need to panic if they don't see the boat close right away.
But I would not go in unless it was necessary. It's a call. I am coming at this from my river guide experience. It requires practice and the equipment ready. I admit I have not practiced it with my own kids but as a river guide we did practice this in the situation where you'd be tethered to rescuers ashore and you'd be bringing a flotation device and line with you. (And even in that line of work, where you'd think this kind of rescue would be common, there was only one time in 20 years, for me, when that kind of rescue became a possibility and was not necessary in the end.) In the case of a MOB I can imagine situations where it would be necessary, and could be done safely by the rescuer. A MOB who is injured or not conscious and can be reached easily and needs the lifesling donned for them is one I can imagine. In this case I am imagining that I am wearing my whitewater PFD so this colors my opinion. Now just because I can IMAGINE something doesn't mean it is common or imminent so the good news is you'll probably never need all the skills you develop through practice, but it's good to have and the confidence it will inspire in the crew is really valuable.
In my own case I also have given myself a limit of forecasted 20 knots of wind or so with my kids. More than that I don't go out or I come home or run for a better anchorage choice. My kids are 10 and 15 now and last summer we ended up doing just that and though the kids were in their PFDs and securely tethered in the cockpit, and bored and snoozing, I was still nervous. We were running under the jib in pretty steep 5 or 6 foot seas and gusts to 30 (the local "windy lane" effect.) There was no problem, no breaking seas on us, it was fun. But since I knew that I would not realistically be able to get back upwind in those conditions in case someone went over, including me!, I really was focused.
on edit, going back to check your post, no, no one should go in, untethered, to assist an otherwise healthy MOB. Panic does not qualify as a necessity in my book. No one should jump in to keep someone company until the boat can come around to retrieve them. That said, it will be immensely tempting and 99% of parents would probably jump in without thinking, me included!

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Sorry, Peter, but this is hilarious.

I say if they're frowning, leave them in the water...!

I sure wish there was a way to edit from my android. You'd think I'd learn. I once found out the hard way that my spell check swapped "horny" for "hungry". Man, I took guff for a month at work when I sent a broadcast text saying I was headed out for a quick lunch and asking if anyone was "hungry."

[meirriba]

I do not believe that there is a single definitive answer to the question.
It will always depend on the circumstances, e. g. who fell out, in what state he is, what is the sea state, how many crew are onboard, who jumps after the MOB...
As an example:
We were in a regatta, racing.
A crew from the boat in front of us fell from the bow. The guy was partially handicapped, and basically would not be able to swim.
He was without an PFD.
The helmsman of his boat jumped after him, held his head up, out of the water. Basically, saved his life.
We picked them up, while their boat spent some time, getting someone to helm, taking the spi down and tacking back towards the scene.

[glcalahan]

Ex and I lived aboard and raised two kids. Swimming lessons day one BUT, always short teather so you won't be in that MOB situation.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Nope. NEVER go in after an MOB.

+ everything Snore said.

LittleWing77

If it was your young child? Calm to moderate conditions? You're going to stand there and watch your child drown in a small, calm lake? I doubt that. Yes, you will jump in, if nothing else is going to work. If not, your wife certainly will... and she will kick your ass on several grounds later. And she will win.

I think the OP asked an excellent question. Obviously, we do everything we can to avoid the situation (PFDs, tethers [my daughter got her first full-body harness at ~ 8 months], swimming competence). Rescue swimming is a worthwhile skill--I watched my daughter demonstrate it in anger when a non-swimmer tried to swim. But at the end of the day, I couldn't be a sailor if I did not feel I had the gear and skills to do this under any conditions. Sometimes you have an MOB that just can't do anything on their own.

Obviously, the rules and precautions vary enormously. The OP was asking about a small lake in moderate to calm conditions, probably with warm water. Not that scary to a strong swimmer with a PFD.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by DanielI

The MOB thread got me thinking about this question: under what circumstances, if ever, is it appropriate to go in after a MOB? (I’m assuming a crew of more than 2).

This really has two parts. One is, having made it back to the MOB, going back to assist an impaired MOB back into the boat. But, in my case, sailing with two children, the younger of which just turned 6, I think if he went over (God forbid), either I or, more likely, my wife (who is the stronger swimmer) would go in after him. After all, for a young child the greatest risk is panic while waiting for rescue.

Two other considerations here: first, most people are assuming that an MOB situation will involve heavy seas, but that is not necessarily the case, particularly for a novice or young sailor. Second, we sail in a lake where a competent swimmer, especially in a life jacket, can almost certainly make it to shore safely without rescue unless injured or unusually heavy weather.

So, the “never go in after an MOB” rule might have exceptions. Anyone want to chime in with what the guidelines are?

I see no problem with your wife going in under the circumstances you described on a small lake. Hopefully a kid 6 is in a life jacket and can swim.