Going in to get MOB

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I see no problem with your wife going in under the circumstances you described on a small lake. Hopefully a kid 6 is in a life jacket and can swim.

I have to amend my own response, I was imagining a child with a PFD in calm conditions. No PFD it's a whole different story.

[DanielI]

Every master’s nightmare, and every parents nightmare. But, to paraphrases my wife, the plan is not to get into a car accident, but you also carry insurance.

Good advice on the life-saving course. Unfortunately, the pandemic is likely to make this unavailable before summer ‘22.

As I didn’t specify before, I should clarify, we strictly require everyone to wear PFDs when on-deck underway. Both kids have taken swimming lessons, but don’t get a lot of practice. Practicing swimming around the boat (in PFD) when at anchor is probably something we should do. I suspect, in a real MOB situation, my older would not panic, but the younger would, seeing the boat moving away. I could be wrong, and obviously have no way to check!

The crazy thing about Navajo Lake is that the wind can get very gusty, without very strong waves. If we were sailing in more open water, we would have a different calculus. For one thing, we are not set up with tethers; that would have to change.

The catch-22 is that in conditions where an MOB most likely would need help, it is also most likely that jumping in would be futile in that reaching the MOB would be unlikely. And logic dictates not sacrificing one person trying to save another. But, as a parent, there is definitely a situation in which one says, “if my child doesn’t make it, then I don’t either.” And since that more an instinct than a rational decision, it seems worth at least thinking through what actually improves the chances of recovery before the situation arises.

[guyrj33]

My worst case scenario was my daughter falling overboard and sinking below the surface.
That's why my PFD is manually inflatable, so I could dive in rescue her and return to the surface with an inflated PFD.
In practice we never faced that situation. Tethers, PFDs and harness.
It's worth noting.
EVERY PFD SHOULD HAVE A CROTCH STRAP!!!!

[wholybee]

I would not consider it unless the MOB was unconscious, or if conscious was inured such they could not attach a line to themselves for reboarding. And if conscious only if they were calm and I had communicated my intentions of going in. A panicked person could grab a boat hook, and while they couldn't be pulled on board that way, they could be held until they calmed down.

Once I was to the point of considering it, my own safety is still a priority. The boat needs to be under control and stopped in the water, near the MOB. If the boat were stopped near the MOB, I might even consider it if conditions were not great, but would tie myself to the boat first.

All of this is really the last stages of recovery. I would never jump in until the boat had returned to the MOB, and someone needed to go in the water to assist. The correct action right when someone goes in is NEVER to jump in after them, but to throw them lifesaving gear to hold onto until you get the boat turned around.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DanielI

I suspect, in a real MOB situation, my older would not panic, but the younger would, seeing the boat moving away. I could be wrong, and obviously have no way to check!

Both my kids (10 and 15) have done a lot of snorkeling around at the local islands and so they are familiar with being in the ocean here, but out in open water I am pretty sure both would panic... and it would be because of how deep the water is and what kind of creatures may be visiting! Neither one would willingly jump in open water though my 10 year old son bravely says he's not worried, Great Whites don't come around if he doesn't thrash around! Yeah right.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by guyrj

EVERY PFD SHOULD HAVE A CROTCH STRAP!!!!

Absolutely!

[dannc]

Originally Posted by DanielI

The MOB thread got me thinking about this question: under what circumstances, if ever, is it appropriate to go in after a MOB? (I’m assuming a crew of more than 2)...

... we sail in a lake where a competent swimmer, especially in a life jacket, can almost certainly make it to shore safely without rescue unless injured or unusually heavy weather.

So, the “never go in after an MOB” rule might have exceptions. Anyone want to chime in with what the guidelines are?

Sure, go in the water after a small child if one can swim to shore or the boat, if one can get back on board the boat. The only caveat being about water temperature. If the water is cold enough for the rescuer to experience the cold water gasp reflex, going in the water is more risky.

Over 20 years ago, a coworker was water skiing with her family, which included two children under the age of 8 and another couple. The boat was stopped in a rather large lake and my friend and one of her kids were sitting on either a swim step or the back of the boat. The inboard engine was idling. The child passed out and fell into the water. Happened quicker than it took to read that sentence. Thankfully, the child was wearing a PFD and the mother pulled the kid back into the boat. I can't remember if the mother had to jump in the water.

Why did the kid pass out? The child was closer to the engine exhaust than the mother and the kid passed out due breathing said exhaust. The mother did not even smell the exhaust and had not idea the exhaust was getting to the child. Scary. No harm done in the end but they kid could easily have drowned that day if it was not for the PFD.

Different lake, but a nearby one, on a cold day. A grandfather took his grandson fishing. It was winter or early spring. The grandson reached out of the boat to tie the fishing boat to a pier under a bridge but the kid fell into the water. The grandfather jumped into the water to save the child and drowned. A guy fishing from the shore pulled the kid to safety. Never saw a report on why the grandfather drowned but my best guess was his head went under the cold water and he had the cold water gasp reflex.

Later,
Dan

[Tayana42]

Daniell, all of the above advice is correct for sailing on open water, salt or freshwater. But, you say you sail in a lake where a competent swimmer can swim ashore. I take that to mean it is a rather smaller lake and with rather less likely rough conditions. So I think some good parental judgement is needed. Flat water and not much wind still might see a child slip overboard. I sailed on lakes with my young children and did insist on life jackets (which meant adults as well as kids). Our boat then was a 16’ trailerable daysailer. And I or my wife would have gone in after a young child then. Your boat is not small like an open daysailer. It may not be easy to get back onboard a Catalina 30. Have a plan that you and your wife practice. Be sure that either of you could handle the boat alone under sail or power. Be sure you have a way to get the child and the adult back onboard. Without doubt the only best plan is to not allow anyone to go overboard. Life jackets, tethers, lifeline netting and practice swimming in the lake near the boat and treading water are all good rules.

[Cadence]

The biggest danger may be the "Captain" owner losing his/her cool. I've seen it, not having the slightest idea of what to do.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The biggest danger may be the "Captain" owner losing his/her cool. I've seen it, not having the slightest idea of what to do.

Practice until it becomes instinctual. One advantage of being an instructor is I demonstrate MOB under sail and under power; I must have done hundreds over the years on scores of different boats.

Everyone should be able to do MOBs. It might be the skipper who goes overboard.

I have never had anyone go overboard. Lots of other objects, including a TV antenna off Cape Scott.

[jackdale]

For those who have never seen Coldwater Boot Camp with Dr Gordon Giesbrecht, (Professor Popsicle), it show be essential viewing.

Cold Water Boot Camp

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The biggest danger may be the "Captain" owner losing his/her cool. I've seen it, not having the slightest idea of what to do.

Originally Posted by jackdale

Practice until it becomes instinctual...

Yes, it should become instinct, but I have seen people with lots of training, training that has to be passed at least once a year, training they have done for years, and often decades, still f..... up when the poo hits the fan. One can train, train and train, as one should, but under pressure, people can fail.

Really nothing one can do but train, train and train which includes thinking about various scenarios, like this discussion, to prepare for the worst case.

Later,
Dan

[Calif.Ted]

I'd go in if required, and have, but couldn't recommend you do it. I was a lifeguard and a firefighter, lost track of the number of water rescues I've done. Certainly preferable to not go in but for a child, injured or disabled, in a heartbeat.

[CarlF]

No hesitation at all. In reasonably warm coastal waters I would go in after any family member - or even a stranger - especially a child - who seemed to be in serious trouble. But only after putting on a lifejacket that has an AIS MOB attached and with a 2nd PFD or ring in my hand.

The AIS MOB is a game changer for MOB in coastal waters. It will bring help quickly even if my boat can't get back to me. Depending on the situation, it may be safer to wait in the lifejackets for professional help in the form of harbor patrol or CG than try to get back aboard a cruising sailboats skippered by freaked out amateurs.

Drowning people don't look like they're drowning. And a drowning person quickly loses the ability to call for help. If a child can't say they're OK - they're probably not. And you then have less than 2 minutes to get to them.

Hopefully most people with kids have seen this:
https://slate.com/technology/2013/06...the-water.html

[Shrew]

I had to chuckle at the comments on 'disabling' a panicked victim as it brought back memories of getting my lifeguard certification in my youth. I have doubts that any parent would be able to bring themselves to some of the extremes it might take to subdue a panicked victim. I think that really brings to forefront what should be a basic tenet in my mind.

If you have not been trained in open water life saving, you really have no business diving into the open water.