Dropping vs lowering anchor

[tarian]

Some of the responses are scary on here , free fall , loads of chain on the bottom , it will sortiyself out.
I know I hear you all cry , we have never dragged we handled this amount of wind etc.
Bull.... this is not correct anchor procedure, you lower the anchor in any controlled descent you require,
You then either let the wind turn you and push you back letting out your scope under some control , then you power test your anchor.
I sail mainly the west of Scotland North , we do not dive on anchors , we get summer storms and strong winds tidal flows and currents,
We do not have the luxury of free falling an anchor and hope for the best, the anchor needs to set and set good or you will have no sleep.

[PineyWoodsPete]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

We have two 120 lb anchors on the bow. The chain is 150 lbs per 100 feet.
One anchor, 200’ chain =420 lbs. One anchor 400’ chain =720 lbs.
Two anchors 300’ chain each to one huge swivel & snubbers =1,160 lbs
If that looks like it might not hold, I get out my FX 85 Fortress anchor.
I keep the two FX 125 disassembled and lines for hurricanes.
Never let the chain rip out, I motor or clutch...depends on set up.
I Always use a sounding lead. Cannot imagine anchoring without it.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his always time for snacks Manatee friends

Seems like a mighty lightweight chain for your potential loads, as a 400' barrel of 3/8 BBB galvanized is 640 lbs, or 1.6 lb/ft. Did you mean kgs?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

...While a good technique is only needed in difficult substrates for new generation anchors, it is worth adopting these good anchoring practices as a routine. The exact substrate is always a mystery. One drawback of new generation anchors is that most substrates provide little feedback that the technique is poor. This accomodating nature can lead to the development of bad habits.

I've speculated that those of us who started with so-called older generation anchors (CQR, Delta, Bruce, Northill, etc...) were forced to adopt careful anchoring techniques. The newer anchors are so much better (generally speaking) at initial set, that it allows people to get away with poorer technique -- at least most of the time.

My view is that good technique outweighs anchor design. I would much rather see a nearby boat using an inferior anchor, but demonstrating good technique, than the opposite. Regardless of how good the anchor is, it's still just a relatively light, pointy chunk of metal that will never hold any boat in a serious blow unless set and dug in.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I've speculated that those of us who started with so-called older generation anchors (CQR, Delta, Bruce, Northill, etc...)

... Danforth, Fortress... and rope rode.

Northill actually sets just like NG, because the geometry is the same. But it will foul fast if you pile chain on it!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

... Danforth, Fortress... and rope rode.

I didn't include Danforth/Fortress in my brief list because I think it's a design that has stood the test of time. My view is that these anchors are an awesome design, but in a more narrow set of conditions.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I would much rather see a nearby boat using an inferior anchor, but demonstrating good technique, than the opposite.

Man, I am totally - 180 degrees - on the other side of this.

It's interesting to read the number of you worried about a pile of chain sitting on top of your anchor. I'm not sure it could even happen. Figure that the anchor is about 3' long and your in 30' of water It's like trying to hit a bullseye from 10' away 100 times in a row. You might be close, but not on.

But even with that, in reading the responses of those that drop their anchors, I didn't see any that planned on just leaving a massive pile of chain on their anchors. Maybe, just maybe, your exaggerating your response to support your method.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Man, I am totally - 180 degrees - on the other side of this.

It's interesting to read the number of you worried about a pile of chain sitting on top of your anchor. I'm not sure it could even happen. Figure that the anchor is about 3' long and your in 30' of water It's like trying to hit a bullseye from 10' away 100 times in a row. You might be close, but not on.

But even with that, in reading the responses of those that drop their anchors, I didn't see any that planned on just leaving a massive pile of chain on their anchors. Maybe, just maybe, your exaggerating your response to support your method.

The 'drop in a pile' is only one indication of poor technique, and I didn't state that, or intended to imply, that this is the only thing they do. In fact those who have stated they do the quick drop have taken great pains to explain how they manage from there. I don't quibble with their interpretations.

I would be (am) concerned when I see that, along with:

- Dropping, then doing nothing else.
- Not setting the anchor (either through natural momentum, or engine/sails).
- Not digging the anchor in, and testing the set.
- Not showing some indication of assessing the hold through transits, or just basic observation.

And I'm sure a bunch of other things...

It's not script that everyone must follow, but much like good seamanship in general, it's a collection approaches and skills that demonstrates an understanding of the forces at play.

[Chotu]

Here comes a shocker for everybody. Ha ha.

Not only do I freewheel it down and drop it all in one place, but, I never have used the engine to pull on it in my life.

Actually, I did a couple times when I was new with a CQR anchor and it dragged when I went in reverse. I found that it didn’t drag if I didn’t use the engine on it. When it set naturally, it could hold through a tropical storm and did.

Now, with modern anchors like the Manson Supreme, I just pour the whole thing off the bow and it all works out every single time. We are talking about 30 years here of me living on anchor more than I have lived on land. I have absolutely never once dragged in my life.

Of course, I do use some monster anchor and good chain, with good shock absorbing system on deck. But, just throw it all off and it all works out. When the wind or current picks up, that stretches the chain out. Or, if they’re already is wind and current, the drift of the boat snaps the anchor into the ground and pulls the chain tight.. You don’t have to do that manually. It all happens automatically.

And the anchor sets automatically to.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Man, I am totally - 180 degrees - on the other side of this.



It's interesting to read the number of you worried about a pile of chain sitting on top of your anchor. I'm not sure it could even happen. Figure that the anchor is about 3' long and your in 30' of water It's like trying to hit a bullseye from 10' away 100 times in a row. You might be close, but not on.



But even with that, in reading the responses of those that drop their anchors, I didn't see any that planned on just leaving a massive pile of chain on their anchors. Maybe, just maybe, your exaggerating your response to support your method.

I agree,
I always argue for dumping the anchor as it’s accurate and prepares you for emergencies when speed is everything.

Then give it some and pull it out if you can, else give the weather a go at it at 3 in the morning.

Keep using a light inferior anchor, you will get punished eventually.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Fuss

I agree,
I always argue for dumping the anchor as it’s accurate and prepares you for emergencies when speed is everything.

Then give it some and pull it out if you can, else give the weather a go at it at 3 in the morning.

Keep using a light inferior anchor, you will get punished eventually.

Interesting. Are you trying to use sarcasm? If so, you should practice it more because it's really not very good. If not (and that's the reason for practice), I agree, dumping your anchor to practice for emergencies is a good idea.

Is the question about a light, inferior anchor directed to me. If so, my boat has a Rocna 55 on it. What would you suggest different?

[CassidyNZ]

I used to free-spool (dump) the anchor when I first got our boat because for some reason the PO only had one foot switch on the winch (up). But since I have put a “down” switch on, we lower the anchor under power.

Procudure:

- I go to the foredeck, wife at the helm, I guide her to where I think we’re going to anchor. She drifts the boat into the wind with an eye on the depth sounder.
- When she achieves the agreed depth, I check the bottom (as best I can), she uses a sophisticated system of relaying water depth to me (holds up an appropriate number of fingers) and on my sophisticated system of signalling (thumbs-up), she puts the boat into reverse and idles astern.
- The natural prop-walk to port turns the boat gently away from the anchor and when the chain loads up, the bow firmly turns towards the anchor and everything lines up.

I know it’s very rudimentary compared to others’ methods but it’s been working for years and we have no reason to change.

As far as “testing” the set for possible high winds in the middle of the night, my view is that if the anchor is set properly as described above, it will simply bury itself more strongly as the chain loads up. We very rarely re-anchor just because the weather gets ugly.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Interesting. Are you trying to use sarcasm? If so, you should practice it more because it's really not very good. If not (and that's the reason for practice), I agree, dumping your anchor to practice for emergencies is a good idea.

Is the question about a light, inferior anchor directed to me. If so, my boat has a Rocna 55 on it. What would you suggest different?

No not at all I agree with everything you wrote...I also have 55kg anchor

My light inferior comment was directed to a previous text...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I didn't include Danforth/Fortress in my brief list because I think it's a design that has stood the test of time. My view is that these anchors are an awesome design, but in a more narrow set of conditions.

Good design. My point was you don't just drop-and-horse. They work better on many bottoms if you sort of "feel" them in. You know.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Man, I am totally - 180 degrees - on the other side of this.

It's interesting to read the number of you worried about a pile of chain sitting on top of your anchor. I'm not sure it could even happen. Figure that the anchor is about 3' long and your in 30' of water It's like trying to hit a bullseye from 10' away 100 times in a row. You might be close, but not on.

But even with that, in reading the responses of those that drop their anchors, I didn't see any that planned on just leaving a massive pile of chain on their anchors. Maybe, just maybe, your exaggerating your response to support your method.

I've seen it more than once when snorkeling. It's actually easy to do in shallow waters with calm winds. Bet I could do it 2 out of 3 times. I've done it by accident when anchor testing in a hurry (no set... and I wonder why). Trade winds and 30' deep, it would take really bad luck to do it once!

[jim King]

I always play it out while backing down slowly. At a scope of 1 to 4 I cleat off the chain and continue to coast back until the anchor has firmly dug in and holds backward progress. Knowing that I have dug in I then play out another length of chain until I am at a scope of 1-5 or if i have the space 1-7 and then back off at 1,500 rpm to make sure we are well dug in and can rest for the night.