Anchoring etiquette

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by guitarrich

Not sure where you’re based Lodesman, but in the uk we have the RYA which delivers training and qualifications to amateur sailors, and the MCA for professionals. I happen to be the latter these days, with a current licence to captain up to 3000gt

I looked through some old literature to confirm my memory of those courses from decades ago, though I’m not sure when the recommendation (for chain rode) was upped from 3 to 4 times depth.

So what literature is that? Now assuming you mean "rule of thumb" rather than "rule."

Do you really only use a 4:1 on commercial vessels? I don't imagine the MCA regulates that, but if it did, it along with most classification societies probably call for a formula similar to the RN's 1.5xsq rt(depth in metres) = shackles of cable.

A simple 3 or 4:1 ratio is inadequate in shallow water, and overabundant in deep water. A more intelligent approach is to assume a standard minimum amount of chain to maintain a horizontal pull at the anchor, and add for depth of water.

[Aeronaught]

Depends on the situation. In the early 80's I was anchored down the reef from Papeette at Mieva Beach....waiting for the hurricane expected that evening, I had out 7:1 or maybe a bit less...1/2" chain with a 75#CQR for a 55' Herreshoff Marco Polo Schooner. A fella in a 30' (or so) boat came and anchored fairly close, but an acceptable distance clear.....until I noticed he buoyed his anchor, the buoy well inside my expected swing as the wind clocked around as the hurricane passed. So, we had a 'conversation'. He insisted he was not a hazard...but with me aware I'd likely be on the engine part of the night, I insisted he remove the buoy. It was not until I got into my skiff with a knife to do the job myself that he took care of it himself. As it happened, that hurricane was very nearly a direct hit, no boat over 40' survived in the anchorage except us and a Swan 65. Both of us had 1/2" chain....every boat using 3/8" chain went on the beach. We did indeed use the engine most of the night, sometimes to veer out to one side of the rode or the other to avoid boats dragging past....and just working on a slow bell to keep some pressure off the Anchor. Broke a 3/4 nylon snubber several times, stretched the 3/4" bolts holding the windless nearly a half inch. Blew all the paint off the front of the masts...but no other damage. Just a hint....if this ever happens to you, a snorkel upsidedown inside your weather gear">foul weather gear will let you breath and a dive mask will let you see what you are doing. That old thing about being able to tie a bowline at night in a howling gale? Yeh....-Veteran '66-68

[Naughty Cat]

Originally Posted by Aeronaught

....and just working on a slow bell to keep some pressure off the Anchor.

What did you mean by a slow bell? If you don't mind elaborating it sounds like it could be very useful knowledge.

[Aeronaught]

'Working on a slow bell' left-over language from when there was a engine room telegraph from the bridge to the engineer. One would work it back and forth, for the ringtone and then leave the indicator where desired....in this case, on 'slow' <grin> I used to work on shipdocking tugs in SF bay....some of those old single screw boats still had them in the wheelhouse, even though they were no longer used. In the worst of the hurricane there were swells in the anchorage, keeping the engine in gear going slow ahead really helped prevent the surge from breaking the chain.

[Montanan]

Always a joy to get to know those that one shares the anchorage with.

There be the good reasons that moorings are established for managing a busy anchorage.

You could always just deploy more rode than the stated 50 meters and let them swing inside your radius and sort out the wrap tangle.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

CaptTom we have a guy at our marina who deliberately parks over the white line so he has two car parks. I imagine it is so no one dings his car.
Cheers

There have been some times when I have, regretfully, had to do this. The sizes of parking stalls aren't standardized, and some parking lots have spaces that are so narrowly striped that wider cars and full-size pickup trucks simply won't fit, not when leaving enough clearance for the door to open. When I've had to do it I park in a lightly used area of the lot, and usually made a mental note to avoid that lot in future if at all possible.

There is one specific lot where I had to use four spaces, because they were also so short that I would not have left enough room for other cars to get in and out. I never went back after realizing how bad it was.


So sometimes there's not much a driver of a larger vehicle can do, aside from patronize some other business. Be kind


The kids are grown up and the trailer is sold, and I've switched to smaller cars now. :/

[goboatingnow]

I find a bicycle fits everywhere

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Never knew there were 'Rules' for anchoring..
Must be an American thing, however a Bing search threw this up about Etiquette..
The cardinal rules of anchoring etiquette, therefore, are quite simple, and we hope that, at the very least, you will take these to heart:

(1) The first boat sets the precedent.

(2) Once anchored, treat others as THEY would like to be treated…with respect.

So the OP is complaining and thus breaching the etiquette.. and so are many others here.
4 x depth to me is 20 metres in 5m, fine for a lunch break but, if I am planning a few nights on the hook it'll be 30metres plus depth if my boats 10metres.
Don't like it.???
Tough titty..

The first boat in does not set a precedent for the entire anchorage, but does create a surrounding “working zone’ based on the boat’s movements where he establishes the type of anchoring within that zone. If the first boat is anchored on chain with a single hook so should the arriving boat if close, otherwise should anchor much farther way if on nylon so the arriving boat anchored does not swing into or foul the first boat. In no way may the arriving boat create a mooring inside the first boat’s zone. But, if he is outside of it then he may. That first boat does not define anchoring for the entire anchorage which might be large with a diversity of sites. It’s up to the arriving boat to anchor clear and stay clear of the boats already there. Not to harass them wishing to crowd into their spot.

You know. There is such a thing as “capacity.” When an anchorage is at capacity based on the number of boats there and how they are anchored, move on. Maybe you can ask someone to shorten up, but there is no obligation. Maybe he does not want close neighbors with potentially loud noise of whatever type. I repeatedly see people cross a wide-open area to anchor unnecessarily close to another to try to crowd into a spot upwind of everybody within the short remaining distance to a boundary. They lay over guys anchor much of the time and may repeatedly swing within a boat length during the day and night. Spoil his vista for sure. Who wants to shorten up for these guys?

[Auklet]

BTW. If you crowd an anchored vessel of prior arrival you might set up some liability for yourself in the event of collision. I believe US Admiralty law recognizes that the first arrived has some additional “rights” regarding space at anchor. Namely, if he needs to let out more scope to cope with dragging at anchor and you’re in the way and are hit, YOU might be the offending party because YOU did not stay clear, etc. So, you’d better be up veering as well! One might fare better near a boat already with a lot of scope out.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Auklet

BTW. If you crowd an anchored vessel of prior arrival you might set up some liability for yourself in the event of collision. I believe US Admiralty law recognizes that the first arrived has some additional “rights” regarding space at anchor. Namely, if he needs to let out more scope to cope with dragging at anchor and you’re in the way and are hit, YOU might be the offending party because YOU did not stay clear, etc. So, you’d better be up veering as well! So maybe you might be better off close to a boat already with a lot of scope out.

Snipet coped from https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?thr...rivals.386065/

EDIT:

OK, this is a quote from the Pardeys' The Capable Cruiser. They were analysing a storm in 1982 which damaged a lot of anchored boats, many of them terminally. A lot of trouble was caused by boats anchoring too close, either blowing down onto each other or blocking the way out to safe water clear of the beach. One of the boats which survived unscathed did so because the owner insisted on his space being kept clear, even though his continually ordering people away embarrassed his wife. The case they refer to was another thirty years before:

In accordance with U.S. Admiralty court decisions, Bill Peterson was definitely acting within his rights. On page 310 and 311 of Knights Modern Seamanship 12th Edition, published 1956, the Juniata decision no. 124―5861 is shown in its entirety. The basic reasoning of the courts was:
"A Vessel shall be found at fault if it
[...]
h - anchors so close to another anchored vessel as to foul her when swinging,
i - fails to shift anchorage when dragging dangerously close to another anchored vessel.
Futhermore, the vessel that anchors first shall warn the one who anchored last that the berth chosen will foul the former’s berth."

It has long been accepted yachting etiquette that the first boat in has the right to ask that others give it not only room to swing, but also room to maneuver out safely. So although Bill Peterson may have offended some people who arrived at the Cape after he did, his actions probably saved his boat.

End quote.

[Auklet]

Yes. But I think there are contingencies that might come in to play as when the skipper of a vessel that is dragging cannot for good reasons shift his anchorage. In a crisis situation veering more scope might be the best, safest response. He should have proper space astern.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Auklet

Yes. But I think there are contingencies that might come in to play when the skipper of a vessel that is dragging cannot for good reasons shift his anchorage. In a crisis situation veering more scope might be the best response. He should have proper room astern.

Yep, it is not just the vessel that is dragging [or simply swinging] that may need to "shift" anchorage to avoid an allision. And shifting anchorage can be achieved by veering, maneuvering upwind of the ground tackle, [I have done such by simply unfurling the jib and gently reached away while remaining tethered to my anchor] or as suggested adjusting scope shorter or longer, discharging completely from the rode, [very helpful to attach a float to aid in locating and retrieving later], dropping additional anchors, rafting up, tying to stern after the dragging boat passes, etc. "Shifting" can also be accomplished by raising anchor and repositioning or just becoming underway.

Not "shifting" when needed can be very problematic.

Typically, no joy when one has to raise or sees the Yankee signal flag. The bright yellow and red is a well-chosen, highly visible, coloring scheme.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

So what literature is that? Now assuming you mean "rule of thumb" rather than "rule."



Do you really only use a 4:1 on commercial vessels? I don't imagine the MCA regulates that, but if it did, it along with most classification societies probably call for a formula similar to the RN's 1.5xsq rt(depth in metres) = shackles of cable.



A simple 3 or 4:1 ratio is inadequate in shallow water, and overabundant in deep water. A more intelligent approach is to assume a standard minimum amount of chain to maintain a horizontal pull at the anchor, and add for depth of water.

It depends and how good and how big your anchor is, and how good is your technique. 3:1 gives you about 50% of max holding power, with most modern anchors. If your anchor is sized so that its max holding power is say 10x what you need in given conditions and bottom, then 3:1 is plenty in those conditions and bottom, if you know how to set your anchor.

I tend to use more scope in shallow water, but in deep water, I use 4:1, 3:1 or even less, when I need to.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Snipet coped from https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?thr...rivals.386065/



EDIT:



OK, this is a quote from the Pardeys' The Capable Cruiser. They were analysing a storm in 1982 which damaged a lot of anchored boats, many of them terminally. A lot of trouble was caused by boats anchoring too close, either blowing down onto each other or blocking the way out to safe water clear of the beach. One of the boats which survived unscathed did so because the owner insisted on his space being kept clear, even though his continually ordering people away embarrassed his wife. The case they refer to was another thirty years before:



In accordance with U.S. Admiralty court decisions, Bill Peterson was definitely acting within his rights. On page 310 and 311 of Knights Modern Seamanship 12th Edition, published 1956, the Juniata decision no. 124―5861 is shown in its entirety. The basic reasoning of the courts was:

"A Vessel shall be found at fault if it

[...]

h - anchors so close to another anchored vessel as to foul her when swinging,

i - fails to shift anchorage when dragging dangerously close to another anchored vessel.

Futhermore, the vessel that anchors first shall warn the one who anchored last that the berth chosen will foul the former’s berth."



It has long been accepted yachting etiquette that the first boat in has the right to ask that others give it not only room to swing, but also room to maneuver out safely. So although Bill Peterson may have offended some people who arrived at the Cape after he did, his actions probably saved his boat.



End quote.

I suggest you try and maintain such clear ways in places like Lakka on Paxos. !!!!!!!

[nhschneider]

Often when we’re approaching a crowded anchorage, we’ll motor through at a very slow speed, smile, make eye contact when we can and ask those in the cockpit or on deck the location of their anchor. If we select a spot where we’d like to drop our hook and there’s someone anchored in the vicinity, we’ll often ask them what they think of our anchoring in that location. I have frequently found that showing deference prompts cooperation, sometimes even an invitation for sundowners (which we usually politely refuse). I’m sure that there have been times when we’ve been rebuffed but none comes to mind. Even though sometimes it’s as irritating as fingernails on a chalk board, I try to be civil and accommodating when someone anchors too close to us.

Fair winds and calm seas.