Old broad introducing herself...

[JPA Cate]

One other thing about fitting the boat, make sure you can easily see out of the ports. It will get old if you have to go above decks always to see what's going on.

Ann

[Wendy Ann]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

One other thing about fitting the boat, make sure you can easily see out of the ports. It will get old if you have to go above decks always to see what's going on.

Ann

Good point - and one I would look for first in a prospective boat - an adequate number and quality of portholes. I'd also get claustrophobic without them.

[TrentePieds]

Wendy-Ann:

Quote: “Finances: are an issue. I have to sell all I own to buy a sailboat in good condition (time factor again - were I 10 years younger I might be willing to deal with a fixer upper). Can't live on land and own a sailboat (or so my logic currently tells me).

We often see comments of even tenor. As a bean-counter by profession I am disturbed by such comments because I consider RISK MANAGEMENT so important for a contended life. I make bold, therefore, to try to disabuse you of your stated opinion and to say again as I've said many times in this forum: A boat is NOT an investment! NO-one should pay more money for a boat than s/he can walk away from still with a smile on her/his face! Money paid for a boat is, with delicious irony, what accountants call “sunk costs”!

I'm not sure whether this next bit doesn't belong in the "Sailor's Confessional" rubric. But I thot you might find it useful :-)

When MyBeloved and I broke the piggy bank we decided to split what was in it two ways: one portion for a modest boat – TrentePieds – that MB had fallen in love with, and the other portion for a modest condo that neither of us are particularly in love with, but which IS an investment. The real estate market in our neckathewoods is, of course, “hot”, which was one reason for making the decision to split the contents of Piggy. In consequence we have seen a realistically realizable increase in the market value of the condo that MORE than recoups the purchase price of the boat PLUS moorage and maintenance costs incurred since we bought her.

The condo, being a modest one, is capable of being rented out for a sum that many can afford, Finding renters will therefore not be difficult should we choose to do that, and the contribution left for us after paying condo fees and taxes will more than cover the moorage fees for the boat. Perhaps an MO you might like to think about :-)?

We are financially comfortable enuff that we can let the condo sit empty while we go sailing. Being Canadian we have, praise the Lord of your choice, a womb-to-tomb “social safety net” that it took years for us hardcore lefties to get implemented, and maintaining a shore-side address therefore has advantages ;-). I am looking, so to speak, at the possibility that in a year's time I may have gone “legally blind”, and that possibility was, of course, an element in our considerations of risk management. I doubt that even if I do lose the greater part of my sight I will not go sailing, but either way – I've got my butt covered :-)!

Back to boats:

When you go shopping you'll discover that boats under about 50 feet are, in fact, much of a muchness. There are only so many ways you can lay out the accommodations in a small boat, and the differences between one make or type and another are largely eyewash. What is available in the budget range I deduce from what you've said that you are in, is mainly boats that may well be LABELLED “cruisers" by their purveyors, but are, in fact, not very good cruising boats because they are slaves, to a greater or lesser extent, to a “rule” that was invented some half a century ago by a bunch of keener racing types. Just recently Jim Cate referred to that rule as having been “disastrous” for cruising boats, and I concur. Designers and builders cleave to the rule (more or less) because a market influenced by the glossy boating mags demand it. In consequence many, many people who have “gone to sea” in the last fifty years have never seen any other kind of design. More is the pity.

I should say at this point that TP is no damn use as a SAILBOAT. But her job in life is not to sail well. Her job in life is to keep MyBeloved happy. And she does that. As for me, I flatter myself that I can sail any damn thing you might ask me to sail, and TP is no exception to that. You, too,will find as you gather experience, that you will adapt to whatever particular boat you happen to be in, so, in the end, the choice of a particular make and model of boat reduces, IMO, to something of a triviality.

However, one desideratum that is NOT trivial is the size of the boat, and the principal reason for that is that cost of maintenance is directly related to displacement. When you consider what you can afford, start with this consideration (you can refine it later): Because boats are three-dimensional objects their displacement increases as the CUBE of any increase in length. That means that a 40-footer costs nearly two and a half times as much as a 30-footer to keep. 40 = 30 x 1.33. Thus the volume (displacement) of a forty-footer is 1.33 x 1.33 x 1.33 times the volume of a 30 footer, or 2.35 more. A 60 footer costs 8 times (2 x 2 x 2 as much to keep as a 30-footer!

I myself would be less concerned about the physical strength required to handle a bigger boat than about the cost of maintaining 'er. Much depends on how she is rigged, but even in my geezer-hood I can still handle a 400 square foot sail in any breeze I care to be out in. And if the breeze became fresher than that, the 400 SqFt would have been long since reefed down to something I COULD handle :-) But this is where we come back to the “rule” mentioned above, the International Off-shore Rule perpetrated by the racing keeners. That rule produces boats that are a pain to handle in any kinda wind. And some such boats are, IMO, downright dangerous. But we can discuss the wherefores of that when you've come a little further down the road.

Someone said a long time ago that “wooden boats are on life-support from the moment they leave the builder's yard, but fibreglass boats have to be ASSASSINATED!”. Just so:-)! You should be able to pick up a “frozen snot” boat – the only kind to have :-) - for a good deal less than thirty grand. One of our members, SteadyHand, keeps an eye on what's available in the market for that kinda money. There are often quite good things. Another member, BoatPoker, is a marine surveyor and has, somewhere around here, a sample survey that I think is a very model of its kind. Ask him for it and study it before you go shopping so you will know what nooks and crannies to look in. The real biggie when buying an older boat is the engine. Taking “Introduction to Diesel Mechanics” is all very well, but nothing beats a brand new engine if it is peace of mind you are after! If you are gonna write a cheque for 35 grand, then consider making it TWO cheques: One for 20 grand for a frozen snot boat, 40 years old, in middling condition, and another for 15 grand for a brand new engine, installed. Then you will have a boat that will serve you well for the rest of your sailing life! Consider as you shop that the owner of a boat with a busted diesel ready to be replaced is going to be extremely “motivated to deal”. That can bestow a considerable financial benefit on you :-).

Enuff for now :-)

Cheers

TP

[Wendy Ann]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Wendy-Ann:

Quote: “Finances: are an issue. I have to sell all I own to buy a sailboat in good condition (time factor again - were I 10 years younger I might be willing to deal with a fixer upper). Can't live on land and own a sailboat (or so my logic currently tells me).

We often see comments of even tenor. As a bean-counter by profession I am disturbed by such comments because I consider RISK MANAGEMENT so important for a contended life. I make bold, therefore, to try to disabuse you of your stated opinion and to say again as I've said many times in this forum: A boat is NOT an investment! NO-one should pay more money for a boat than s/he can walk away from still with a smile on her/his face! Money paid for a boat is, with delicious irony, what accountants call “sunk costs”!
U
I'm not sure whether this next bit doesn't belong in the "Sailor's Confessional" rubric. But I thot you might find it useful :-)

When MyBeloved and I broke the piggy bank we decided to split what was in it two ways: one portion for a modest boat – TrentePieds – that MB had fallen in love with, and the other portion for a modest condo that neither of us are particularly in love with, but which IS an investment. The real estate market in our neckathewoods is, of course, “hot”, which was one reason for making the decision to split the contents of Piggy. In consequence we have seen a realistically realizable increase in the market value of the condo that MORE than recoups the purchase price of the boat PLUS moorage and maintenance costs incurred since we bought her.

The condo, being a modest one, is capable of being rented out for a sum that many can afford, Finding renters will therefore not be difficult should we choose to do that, and the contribution left for us after paying condo fees and taxes will more than cover the moorage fees for the boat. Perhaps an MO you might like to think about :-)?

We are financially comfortable enuff that we can let the condo sit empty while we go sailing. Being Canadian we have, praise the Lord of your choice, a womb-to-tomb “social safety net” that it took years for us hardcore lefties to get implemented, and maintaining a shore-side address therefore has advantages ;-). I am looking, so to speak, at the possibility that in a year's time I may have gone “legally blind”, and that possibility was, of course, an element in our considerations of risk management. I doubt that even if I do lose the greater part of my sight I will not go sailing, but either way – I've got my butt covered :-)!

Back to boats:

When you go shopping you'll discover that boats under about 50 feet are, in fact, much of a muchness. There are only so many ways you can lay out the accommodations in a small boat, and the differences between one make or type and another are largely eyewash. What is available in the budget range I deduce from what you've said that you are in, is mainly boats that may well be LABELLED “cruisers" by their purveyors, but are, in fact, not very good cruising boats because they are slaves, to a greater or lesser extent, to a “rule” that was invented some half a century ago by a bunch of keener racing types. Just recently Jim Cate referred to that rule as having been “disastrous” for cruising boats, and I concur. Designers and builders cleave to the rule (more or less) because a market influenced by the glossy boating mags demand it. In consequence many, many people who have “gone to sea” in the last fifty years have never seen any other kind of design. More is the pity.

I should say at this point that TP is no damn use as a SAILBOAT. But her job in life is not to sail well. Her job in life is to keep MyBeloved happy. And she does that. As for me, I flatter myself that I can sail any damn thing you might ask me to sail, and TP is no exception to that. You, too,will find as you gather experience, that you will adapt to whatever particular boat you happen to be in, so, in the end, the choice of a particular make and model of boat reduces, IMO, to something of a triviality.

However, one desideratum that is NOT trivial is the size of the boat, and the principal reason for that is that cost of maintenance is directly related to displacement. When you consider what you can afford, start with this consideration (you can refine it later): Because boats are three-dimensional objects their displacement increases as the CUBE of any increase in length. That means that a 40-footer costs nearly two and a half times as much as a 30-footer to keep. 40 = 30 x 1.33. Thus the volume (displacement) of a forty-footer is 1.33 x 1.33 x 1.33 times the volume of a 30 footer, or 2.35 more. A 60 footer costs 8 times (2 x 2 x 2 as much to keep as a 30-footer!

I myself would be less concerned about the physical strength required to handle a bigger boat than about the cost of maintaining 'er. Much depends on how she is rigged, but even in my geezer-hood I can still handle a 400 square foot sail in any breeze I care to be out in. And if the breeze became fresher than that, the 400 SqFt would have been long since reefed down to something I COULD handle :-) But this is where we come back to the “rule” mentioned above, the International Off-shore Rule perpetrated by the racing keeners. That rule produces boats that are a pain to handle in any kinda wind. And some such boats are, IMO, downright dangerous. But we can discuss the wherefores of that when you've come a little further down the road.

Someone said a long time ago that “wooden boats are on life-support from the moment they leave the builder's yard, but fibreglass boats have to be ASSASSINATED!”. Just so:-)! You should be able to pick up a “frozen snot” boat – the only kind to have :-) - for a good deal less than thirty grand. One of our members, SteadyHand, keeps an eye on what's available in the market for that kinda money. There are often quite good things. Another member, BoatPoker, is a marine surveyor and has, somewhere around here, a sample survey that I think is a very model of its kind. Ask him for it and study it before you go shopping so you will know what nooks and crannies to look in. The real biggie when buying an older boat is the engine. Taking “Introduction to Diesel Mechanics” is all very well, but nothing beats a brand new engine if it is peace of mind you are after! If you are gonna write a cheque for 35 grand, then consider making it TWO cheques: One for 20 grand for a frozen snot boat, 40 years old, in middling condition, and another for 15 grand for a brand new engine, installed. Then you will have a boat that will serve you well for the rest of your sailing life! Consider as you shop that the owner of a boat with a busted diesel ready to be replaced is going to be extremely “motivated to deal”. That can bestow a considerable financial benefit on you :-).

Enuff for now :-)

Cheers

TP

Yes indeed - so right on so many fronts, including boat size, engine state, and everything else you've taken the trouble to point out. Regarding finances, difficult to explain a situation without going into too many details, but to take a quick short stab at it: when I say I must sell all I own in order to buy a boat, I do not mean I will have nothing left after said boat purchase. The whole escapade is in the thinking and mulling over and planning stages yet, so for all we (I) know, it might just never get off the ground and I might spend the rest of my life chained to my desk until I keel over and die at it, just so I can continue to pay the mortgage - which isn't too large, and in a house situated in a quickly appreciating market. Who knows, I might just be safer doing that.

Sorry to hear you may have gone legally blind in two years - hard prospect to have to deal with. I hope it doesn't come to that and I wish you well.

Edit: oh geez I think I might have come off a little rude - not what I intended. Your post is so full of useful information and it will take me quite a while to digest it all - many thanks for the various tips and contacts (yes I've been reading through Steadyhand's boats under 30K for a while). Will take my time and read through all your comments later.
Cheers - Wendy

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Wendy-Ann:



Back to boats:

When you go shopping you'll discover that boats under about 50 feet are, in fact, much of a muchness. There are only so many ways you can lay out the accommodations in a small boat, and the differences between one make or type and another are largely eyewash.

Eyewash? Seems to me that there are significant differences between boats... enough so to generate huge arguments here on cf and around the world. I'd have to disagree with this thought.


What is available in the budget range I deduce from what you've said that you are in, is mainly boats that may well be LABELLED “cruisers" by their purveyors, but are, in fact, not very good cruising boats because they are slaves, to a greater or lesser extent, to a “rule” that was invented some half a century ago by a bunch of keener racing types. Just recently Jim Cate referred to that rule as having been “disastrous” for cruising boats,

The latter years of the IOR rule produced some very unseaworthy vessels, but none of them are offered as cruisers. A few have been converted (IE Wings, a Serendipity 43 that has been a very successful cruiser), but the genre ain't even close to being cruising boats. Earlier IOR boats were not so bad as cruisers. I can say this with some knowldege, having lived aboard and cruised on one for 17 years and 86,000 miles. There are plenty of designs from this era that make fine cruisers, and have track records to support this claim.

and I concur. Designers and builders cleave to the rule (more or less) because a market influenced by the glossy boating mags demand it. In consequence many, many people who have “gone to sea” in the last fifty years have never seen any other kind of design. More is the pity.

I should say at this point that TP is no damn use as a SAILBOAT. But her job in life is not to sail well. Her job in life is to keep MyBeloved happy. And she does that. As for me, I flatter myself that I can sail any damn thing you might ask me to sail, and TP is no exception to that. You, too,will find as you gather experience, that you will adapt to whatever particular boat you happen to be in, so, in the end, the choice of a particular make and model of boat reduces, IMO, to something of a triviality.

Perhaps in the sense that a good sailor can sail just about anything, but for a boat to be a good cruising home I disagree pretty strongly. Factors such as accessibility of engine and other systems for servicing, storage volume, sail plan and controls, creature comforts (ergonomics) and yes, even aesthetics all matter a great deal to the live aboard cruiser of any age.


However, one desideratum that is NOT trivial is the size of the boat, and the principal reason for that is that cost of maintenance is directly related to displacement. When you consider what you can afford, start with this consideration (you can refine it later): Because boats are three-dimensional objects their displacement increases as the CUBE of any increase in length. That means that a 40-footer costs nearly two and a half times as much as a 30-footer to keep.

The enclosed volume of a boat does increase roughly as the cube of the LOA, but neither the displacement nor the cost of upkeep scale the same way. Some costs scale roughly with length, things like berth rental and slipping, some with a super-linear factor like quantity of bottom paint which goes roughly as the square of length, but few if any scale as the cube of length.

40 = 30 x 1.33. Thus the volume (displacement) of a forty-footer is 1.33 x 1.33 x 1.33 times the volume of a 30 footer, or 2.35 more. A 60 footer costs 8 times (2 x 2 x 2 as much to keep as a 30-footer!

I myself would be less concerned about the physical strength required to handle a bigger boat than about the cost of maintaining 'er. Much depends on how she is rigged, but even in my geezer-hood I can still handle a 400 square foot sail in any breeze I care to be out in. And if the breeze became fresher than that, the 400 SqFt would have been long since reefed down to something I COULD handle :-) But this is where we come back to the “rule” mentioned above, the International Off-shore Rule perpetrated by the racing keeners. That rule produces boats that are a pain to handle in any kinda wind. And some such boats are, IMO, downright dangerous. But we can discuss the wherefores of that when you've come a little further down the road.

Someone said a long time ago that “wooden boats are on life-support from the moment they leave the builder's yard, but fibreglass boats have to be ASSASSINATED!”. Just so:-)! You should be able to pick up a “frozen snot” boat – the only kind to have :-) - for a good deal less than thirty grand. One of our members, SteadyHand, keeps an eye on what's available in the market for that kinda money. There are often quite good things. Another member, BoatPoker, is a marine surveyor and has, somewhere around here, a sample survey that I think is a very model of its kind. Ask him for it and study it before you go shopping so you will know what nooks and crannies to look in. The real biggie when buying an older boat is the engine. Taking “Introduction to Diesel Mechanics” is all very well, but nothing beats a brand new engine if it is peace of mind you are after! If you are gonna write a cheque for 35 grand, then consider making it TWO cheques: One for 20 grand for a frozen snot boat, 40 years old, in middling condition, and another for 15 grand for a brand new engine, installed. Then you will have a boat that will serve you well for the rest of your sailing life! Consider as you shop that the owner of a boat with a busted diesel ready to be replaced is going to be extremely “motivated to deal”. That can bestow a considerable financial benefit on you :-).

Enuff for now :-)

Cheers

TP

All I can say is that TP's opinions are not universally shared and should not be your only guidelines in boat selection. I do not wish to offend, but this is my belief.

Jim

[Wendy Ann]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

All I can say is that TP's opinions are not universally shared and should not be your only guidelines in boat selection. I do not wish to offend, but this is my belief.

Jim

Thanks Jim - TP's opinions would not be my guidelines in boat selection - I too (even as a not-yet boat owner) already have my own opinions on what makes an acceptable or desirable boat, and do not agree with some of the points he raises - that you have highlighted, in particular. I've read enough about sailboats to have formed definite, informed, likes and dislikes over certain features over others, between this make of boat or that. There are several features of some makes of boats that would have me rule them out entirely.
I too do not wish to offend TP, and appreciate his input (I may not take them seriously, but I do appreciate the trouble and time he's taken in expressing his opinions).

This forum is a wonderful place for gathering information. And opinions.

Wendy

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A 30-34 Catalina would be nice. Far more modern then the islander. Lots of inside space and storage and Easy to sail and motor.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Welcome, Wendy.

I sailed for over 35 years back when I lived down where sailorchic is, and while I didn't liveabord, we sailed the same waters. I sailed (motored) my boat up to Vancouver Island in 2016.

"Startup excitement" sure is fun, isn't it? Now that you're here, in addition to all the good thoughts so far, you need to expland your "mission." You talked about your daugther and beau visiting and the general size of the boat.

But, but, but...your choices are/should be different in a boat if you're eventually planning to go to even Hawaii (from the west coast) vs. coastal cruising, even to the Bahamas. Or further.

These choices, while maybe premature, should either factor into your "I only want to buy one boat" vs. "I want a reasonably sized boat to start off with but one that could get me pretty far out but not all the way."

There is a great mix of both type of folks here for info.

Since I have a Catalina 34 and have for almost 20 years, I'd also encourage you to find a boat that has a "following" and good owners support. Mine does, damn fine website, too, if I even do say so myself! Poke around for what kind of info you should be able to get your hands on fast and easily: www.c34.org

Good luck, happy hunting.

Calder's Cruising Handbook is very good. One of my "go to" books and perfect for where you are in the process now.

[Wendy Ann]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Welcome, Wendy.

I sailed for over 35 years back when I lived down where sailorchic is, and while I didn't liveabord, we sailed the same waters. I sailed (motored) my boat up to Vancouver Island in 2016.

"Startup excitement" sure is fun, isn't it? Now that you're here, in addition to all the good thoughts so far, you need to expland your "mission." You talked about your daugther and beau visiting and the general size of the boat.

But, but, but...your choices are/should be different in a boat if you're eventually planning to go to even Hawaii (from the west coast) vs. coastal cruising, even to the Bahamas. Or further.

These choices, while maybe premature, should either factor into your "I only want to buy one boat" vs. "I want a reasonably sized boat to start off with but one that could get me pretty far out but not all the way."

There is a great mix of both type of folks here for info.

Since I have a Catalina 34 and have for almost 20 years, I'd also encourage you to find a boat that has a "following" and good owners support. Mine does, damn fine website, too, if I even do say so myself! Poke around for what kind of info you should be able to get your hands on fast and easily: Catalina 34 International Association

Good luck, happy hunting.

Calder's Cruising Handbook is very good. One of my "go to" books and perfect for where you are in the process now.

Hi Stu - thanks for the welcome! Yes indeed, "startup excitement" sure is fun - and a little daunting too. You raise a couple very valid points - so much to consider beyond just acquiring a boat for the initially stated purpose - setting off for Hawaii (and other parts) would be a goal, if I could eventually raise my sailing skills to fit the task - daughter and her beau would be the first guests I would consider to have on board. Hawaii is one of their favored haunts. (Though currently by air).

I've been looking at Catalinas - and do find them appealing. Thanks for the link.

My daughter's first question when I mentioned my scheme was "are sure you would/could want to live on a boat mom???" Well, why ever not? Still much thinking through left to be done...

Nigel Caulder's book you mentioned was the first one I attempted to acquire, but Amazon let me down sorely - book arrived twice with bashed in covers and I returned both. Will have to try again. I now have Beth Leonard's The Voyager's Handbook and am slowly making my way through it. Good book. (If only I could tear myself away from this forum long enough to actually read it).

Happy to be here on the forum, though, and welcoming all the feedback!

Thanks again!

[Three Sisters]

Hello Wendy Ann. What a pleasure to have you on board.

Upon perusing through the used book store, there was a near perfect copy of Chapman's Piloting. A lucky find.

This must be exciting to plan for the times ahead. I'd like to take this opportunity to wish you only the best.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Wendy Ann

My daughter's first question when I mentioned my scheme was "are sure you would/could want to live on a boat mom???" Well, why ever not? :

Why ever yes? Isn't the reality that you may feel you'd like to, but can you really know if you've never done it?

We made a decision to buy a home in Fort Lauderdale and move here and sell our home in NC after spending only about 10 days here. Most would call that insanity. We can't imagine now living anywhere else. We never really thought about "what if this is a mistake" but we were in a position we could have reversed course.

I would test myself as to the pros and cons of living on a sailboat and see how each of them strikes me. A charter is beneficial even if only a few days. That's what we did when it came to choosing a boat.

Just don't dismiss your daughter's question. In fact, I hope you asked her why she asked. Was she expressing how she'd feel about it, or was there something about you and what she knew about you, that caused her to ask?

Ultimately you have to decide. Just consider all the points made from all directions, then make your own decision.

[Jim Cate]

Hi again Wendy,

Here's an observation: when someone asks the ""are sure you would/could want to live on a boat mom???" question, they are coming from the viewpoint of someone who would never in a month of Sundays do so. They have a land lubbers outlook.

So, IMO one should never worry about such queries. You have apparently given the question some thought and decided that you want to give it a go. It will likely work ok for you. If it does not, well, you can back out. Yep, it would likely cost you some money, but you will have had one hell of a time in the meanwhile. Folks don't seem to mind spending a few grand on a two week holiday, after which they have a sunburn and not much else to show for the money. You will have had,even if quitting, a life altering experience, one never gained in a Hilton.

And the oft repeated advice to charter before buying... nope, not economically valid for those looking in the sub-50K$ ranges. That 2-4 thousand bucks lost in the charter represents on the order of 10% of what you propose to spend. The experience, while perhaps enjoyable, will be in a boat vastly different to your proposed vessel, will be prepared and provisioned by someone else, so you don't get that experience, and it will come with a set of rules which tend to squash the spontaneity of choice that is one of the joys of cruising.

There now, I've offended a few more well meaning folks... sorry 'bout that, but that's my opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it!!

Jim

[DumnMad]

Our children doubted our sanity (Hence DumnMad) but now seem pleased to have parents with a story attached.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by BandB

Why ever yes? Isn't the reality that you may feel you'd like to, but can you really know if you've never done it?

We made a decision to buy a home in Fort Lauderdale and move here and sell our home in NC after spending only about 10 days here. Most would call that insanity. We can't imagine now living anywhere else. We never really thought about "what if this is a mistake" but we were in a position we could have reversed course.

I would test myself as to the pros and cons of living on a sailboat and see how each of them strikes me. A charter is beneficial even if only a few days. That's what we did when it came to choosing a boat.

Just don't dismiss your daughter's question. In fact, I hope you asked her why she asked. Was she expressing how she'd feel about it, or was there something about you and what she knew about you, that caused her to ask?

Ultimately you have to decide. Just consider all the points made from all directions, then make your own decision.

Really ? Is there a dock ? We'll stop by for a couple a months ! lol

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And the oft repeated advice to charter before buying... nope, not economically valid for those looking in the sub-50K$ ranges. That 2-4 thousand bucks lost in the charter represents on the order of 10% of what you propose to spend. The experience, while perhaps enjoyable, will be in a boat vastly different to your proposed vessel, will be prepared and provisioned by someone else, so you don't get that experience, and it will come with a set of rules which tend to squash the spontaneity of choice that is one of the joys of cruising.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In the early 90s we had owned our C25 for about five years and were thinking about "moving up." So we looked around and bareboated a 36 foot boat that was one of our "candidates." The first day out was fine, next morning the motor wouldn't start. Called the charter company, they sent someone out to "repair" it. Went up to the Wreck of The Rhone and grabbed a mooring. Snorkeled, came back to the boat, engine wouldn't start. Called the company. "Can you sail back to base?" "Sure I could, but I won't." "Why not?" "Have you looked out your window today?" There was no wind. They said they'd be there by 1500. As that time approached we saw this HUGE sailboat motoring towards us. The Beneteau 510 looked as huge as an aircraft carrier next to the 36 we were on!!! Never got to experience the 36 we came to "try out" and never got up to buying a 50 footer either! But it was a fun week! They didn't up the charge 'cuz having to change boats was their issue, not ours.

Chartering is an expensive, very expensive way to perhaps learn something that you can gain from simply going on a lot of different boats for an hour or so at a time and by reading and understanding the very good points made in the first half of Calder's Cruising Handbook (when a non-damaged one makes it your way). He doesn't deal with likes & dislikes which are immensely personal choices, but rather with what works and doesn't work, good stuff.

[Wendy Ann]

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Hello Wendy Ann. What a pleasure to have you on board.

Upon perusing through the used book store, there was a near perfect copy of Chapman's Piloting. A lucky find.

This must be exciting to plan for the times ahead. I'd like to take this opportunity to wish you only the best.

Thank you Three Sisters for your welcoming words - so nicely expressed that I take great pleasure in reading them.

What a stroke of good fortune, finding that near perfect copy of Chapman's Piloting in a used book store. I shall have to go in search of used book stores in my area to see what treasures I can unearth.

Thank you also for your encouraging best wishes for the times ahead - both exciting and terrifying to contemplate.