Florida Law Enforcement ie; FWC

[a64pilot]

Good God, don't they have to arrest you for something before they can do a body cavity check? Surely they don't let Barney Fife do that to anyone they want for no stated reason?

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Good God, don't they have to arrest you for something before they can do a body cavity check? Surely they don't let Barney Fife do that to anyone they want for no stated reason?

A64, unfortunately they don't. More and more police agencies operate along the lines of guilty till proven innocent several times and then we're still gonna watch your @$$. It's really gotten ridiculous. More and more state and local cops think they're Feds and that the only way to do their job is to be an arrogant ____.

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[a64pilot]

Kevin,
I understand what your saying, Barney Fife has been around for a long time, true they are the exception,
But your saying that someone can be submitted to a body cavity search, without being arrested and charged with something? Surely that has to be a violation of Civil Rights?

[Kevin84]

I agree, it probably is. But with things like the Patriot Act and the way boaters are denied their constitutional rights prohibiting warrantless searches, I wouldn't put it past them. Think about it, in an airport, security can do a strip search and body cavity search without any more cause than a "gut feeling." More often it's because someone fits a profile.

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[woodymr]

I agree, interesting stoies indeed. I never could sit through a reading of the whole book "Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy even though I am an avid reader. But upon posting on my Columbia group that I finally had a short name for my boat, 42 (which is the hull number) someone told of the meaning! I said; well how cool is that! FYI some may not know the "Water Cops" proceedure....they come alongside your vessel (how big is too big?) I am going to speak with someone on this question, anyway when alongside they tie up to your boat and make you relinguish control over to them and thier outboard propulsion. Well that just doesn't sit right with me, a small boat with I don't care how many outboards being operated by who knows what kind of experienced helmsman! I have been boarded by Coast Guard and since they are trained seamen, they will board people and back away allowing you to remain under control of your vessel, at thier discretion I suppose. The guys even helped me tie up at fuel stop dock because my classic Columbia does not have stamped serial numbers on hull, they had to had to call office and speak to who? to verify? I don't think they ever got an answer, they finally gave up and called it a day! Also nice guys!

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by woodymr

....................... some may not know the "Water Cops" proceedure....they come alongside your vessel (how big is too big?) I am going to speak with someone on this question, anyway when alongside they tie up to your boat and make you relinguish control over to them and thier outboard propulsion. Well that just doesn't sit right with me ....................

I would not find this acceptable either in cases of traffic or a restricted channel. "On the hip" the smaller vesel would have good control, but very limited visibility. Is this what you have determind as their procedure from your personal events or by their wrtten policy? I don't doubt your account of events, but I do doubt that the FWC officers always follow an official procedure. I doubt if public relations personel from the FWC would respond on this forum, but I do feel it would be an opportunity for them to present a valuable contribution to the boating community.

[bobconnie]

Man, you folks in Fla have some real problems !! we have 20 30 boats a day coming in from Mexician waters, with sea food products aboard, no way in the world would any state office try to stop these vessels on there way to deliver !! The Coasties wait till they tie up at the fisheries docks before they come aboard !! They may board at sea while the boats are fishing, but when they are coming to sell there catch they wait till they tie up !!Of course a lot of the fishermen down here are a little hard to deal with when ya mess with them when they have fish aboard!! Seems to me writeing to your local Fed elected folks, senators congressmen ect, might help!! Our local Costies and Homeland folks are very helpfull and easy to work with ! Never have problems returning from Mexican waters! They have delt with us enough that we can call and they will ck us back in!! Maybe theres a attitude problem on somebodys part here maybe ??

[heron237]

ah woody, that's the shits, but i gotta tell ya the days of "to serve and protect" are over. The main thing is that we're now considered enemies of the state, Look at the militarization of the police, post 911 plus being a fellow 60 year older, those kids treat us like dirt.

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Good God, don't they have to arrest you for something before they can do a body cavity check? Surely they don't let Barney Fife do that to anyone they want for no stated reason?

In a recent infamous DPS traffic stop case here in TX, a couple of good ol' girls were pulled over on an interstate.
Barney DPS Fife called for assistance from Barnnita DPS Fife to come do some cavity searches on the side of the freakin' highway. Officer Barnnita pulls on the latex gloves and commences to do a touchy-feely jeans down V&A search, all captured on the cruisers' dashboard gun cam while the traffic drove by.
I believe the resulting abuse law suits were won by the girls.

I had an illegal side of the highway search pulled on me once, not that bad though. I shuttled my daughters for visitations from the ex's when it wasn't convenient to fly them ~250 miles. They would fall asleep and I always kept a cooler on the floor of the front pass seat. Pulled over for a 'pit stop' and was surrounded as I was getting back in. While I was talking to one Fife, another opened the pass door (not asking permission) and began rummaging around in the cooler, his face inches from daughter #1, she woke up with a start and began screaming bloody murder, waking up Daughter #2 in the back seat in a panic mode. Effen jerks...I know it can be a tough job and I respect that, but they've been stretching the limits lately.

All this carp is spinoff from the massively failed, so-called "War on Drugs". As a former MX border dweller I've had a birds eye view for 40-some years of this massive corruption and $$$making scheme, and IMO, it is flat insane. At least "We the People" once had enough of the failed Volstead Act/Prohibition, and terminated it. Guess our ancestors were a bit smarter back then.

[woodymr]

To answer the question of knowing thier "written" policy, no just from mine and others experiences but as I say I am curious to know how and if they would pull this crap on say a 50-60 footer, not likely,.I think more it's the lion in the jungle mentality, profile the
"weaker" kill. And as for the attitude word that gets freely thrown around, my spiritual qualifications haven't reached Christ like poportions yet. I have my reasons for my actions and I stand by most of my actions being a grown old man, a product of the late 50's and early 60's when things where a bit differant, maybe. I heard.on NPR that scince then the whole worlds population has doubled so.....peace be with us

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Man, you folks in Fla have some real problems !! .....................

Maybe not. Woodymr gives a credible account of a boarding that he has concerns about, especially if the procedure were to be used with a larger vessel.

Others have posted some second hand annecdotal accounts that may be pure myth. Truth is difficult to establish in retold stories.

As I said earlier, I have been full time liveaboard/crusing in Florida since 1972 without ever being boarded or even questioned by an authority during my passages or anchoring. My experiences are likely similar the the experiences of the great majority in Florida waters, but then that is just my own "annecdotal story".

[Paul Annapolis]

The few times I have dealt with law enforcement on y the water have been positive but are readers aware of the marine police innocent in Washington D.C. last summer where at policr boat tore into a dpcked boat at high speed and sunk it at the dock? He then told the owner to "relax". News accts are on you Tube.

[heron237]

Originally Posted by OutOfControl

mr woody, sorry to hear of your unfortunate encounters with the FWC. I have been boarded 3 times in the last 5 years and was always treated fairly. I had all my documents, licenses, and safety equipment readily presentable before they arrived. I did not try and tell them what they could or could not do and allowed them to do their job without interference.
Perhaps some boaters project an attitude that they are above reproach and this just serves to irritate the officer. They are commissioned by the state of Florida and have the authority to board, search, confiscate and arrest if an infraction is committed.
Do they overstretch their boundaries? Yes, I believe they have the capability of abusing the power entrusted to them. But, I would not be surprised to learn an arrogant boater quoting all sorts of laws and constitutional rights provoked the officers ire.
It is what it is, obey the rules and regulations, show them a little respect, act in a non aggressive manner and you will be treated in a similar fashion.

OutOfControl

Let me get this straight, you're a citizen and you must project an aura of fealty to them to be treated equally under the law

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by heron237

Let me get this straight, you're a citizen and you must project an aura of fealty to them to be treated equally under the law

I followed the link and read it. They need warrants or probable cause that laws are being violated. If they have a warrant or declare probable cause you may not resist them.

That said, I would consider asking politely if they have a warrant or have probable cause before I let them aboard anyway. I would want them to declare under the state regulations what they are looking for and why they feel they have cause. If your are not treated properly or they destroy property or put your vessel or person in danger, You'd better have badge numbers etc. This data should all be in you log book anyway.

BTW, there are the same sorts of pestering of boaters here too. (Michigan) I usually note that the stops occur on smaller vessels such as obvious day use types, often with too many people and none or too few life jackets. We get a courtesy inspection at launch week by USCG retired AUX. We get a CG pass sticker and paperwork that indicates that further inspection is probably a waste of time. We also have active AIS so the MIB and CG and any other proper cops know all they need to know abut us 20 miles away. The MIB cruised up to us near Drummond Island on our way to the North Channel. They only asked a few easy questions and wished us a nice vacation. We have never been boarded.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

............... We get a courtesy inspection at launch week by USCG retired AUX. We get a CG pass sticker and paperwork that indicates that further inspection is probably a waste of time. We also have active AIS so the MIB and CG and any other proper cops know all they need to know abut us 20 miles away. ........................

I well understand this thought of taking proactive measures, such as voluntary inspection or electronically broadcast ID, would lessen the likelihood of being stopped or boarded. I also suspect that an older, more ragged, boat might be "profiled". Once I saw a Cigarette boat painted flat black with no bright chrome or stainless. I bet it would draw the attention of law inforcement. It's a difficult judgement to make. We would hope that all would share the same rights and freedoms regardless of appearance, but there will always be people making judgements.