A call for mod action and user restraint

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Water is necessary for life also but if you have too much you can't breath. Too much CO2 is as big a problem as too much water.
The argument over whether we have too much CO2 is very legitimate.

Not saying you're wrong or right but you need to find a better bon mot.

Well, way back when there was a few orders of magnitude more of it in the atmosphere nature handled it by turning it into plants, coral reefs etc. I'm fairly certain that it will spring into action again if we re-introduce a bit of it to the atmosphere.

It does the same with the water, evaporates it off the sea, the wind blows it over the land, it condenses and falls onto the earth as rain or snow and eventually ends up back in the sea. It's called the hydrological cycle, another natural process.

At the moment more than a thousand coal fired power stations are being built or in advanced planning. In the near future all the usual suspects are going to jet off up to Scotland for another CC/AGW propaganda session. The big theme this year is "net zero by 2050". One of the keynote speakers represents the biggest polluter, and builders of many of the new coal fired power stations, and will be given a hero's welcome and will make promises so far into the future that we'll probably be arguing about excessive housing development on Mars by then.

I am agnostic because I do not have the knowledge base to objectively evaluate many of the scientific, and so called scientific, investigations being carried out and sceptical because during my life lot's of folks with hidden agendas have tried to scam me.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jahwork

...I do not always agree with Mike O, but I do sincerely respect his approach as I find he is able to engage in civil discourse, even when his opinion differs, without being disrespectful of others or acting in the manner I described above. Mike, I haven’t ignored you yet.......but the day is young my friend.

Well said Jake. Thanks for the great post. Wish you'd post more often . And it's great to know I haven't annoyed you too much -- not yet anyway .

Originally Posted by Exile

...You can follow Mike's lead and simply not engage, or if you do engage you can limit much of the rule violating and unfriendliness by . . . well . . . taking Mike's advice again? (this is going to go right to OReilly's head I know ).

What? Me get all smug and self-satisfied . Never ...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The question of thread drift in this thread has been flagged to the moderators. This issue gets flagged for other threads periodically too. Here's where we are are at:

A. CF is a discussion forum and discussions will drift, live with it.
B. We don't have the manpower to control all thread drift even if we wanted to.
C. The few areas where we do tend to moderate against topic drift are:
1. Ads. Somebody points out something misleading in an ad, fine. Want to have a discussion about how some other VHF is better than the one being sold, sorry, not pertinent, start your own thread.
2. Hijacking, usually for personal purposes.
3. Special purpose threads dealing with current conditions at specific locations in the aftermath of hurricanes or current entry restrictions at various ports and countries right now during COVID.
4. Non-cruising topics drift in threads or even the whole thread being off topic to start with.

Thanks Adelie. A great summary and outline of a very reasonable approach to moderating here on CF. Everyone should paste this on their desktops, and read it every once in a while.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Well, way back when there was a few orders of magnitude more of it in the atmosphere nature handled it by turning it into plants, coral reefs etc. I'm fairly certain that it will spring into action again if we re-introduce a bit of it to the atmosphere.

It does the same with the water, evaporates it off the sea, the wind blows it over the land, it condenses and falls onto the earth as rain or snow and eventually ends up back in the sea. It's called the hydrological cycle, another natural process.

At the moment more than a thousand coal fired power stations are being built or in advanced planning. In the near future all the usual suspects are going to jet off up to Scotland for another CC/AGW propaganda session. The big theme this year is "net zero by 2050". One of the keynote speakers represents the biggest polluter, and builders of many of the new coal fired power stations, and will be given a hero's welcome and will make promises so far into the future that we'll probably be arguing about excessive housing development on Mars by then.

I am agnostic because I do not have the knowledge base to objectively evaluate many of the scientific, and so called scientific, investigations being carried out and sceptical because during my life lot's of folks with hidden agendas have tried to scam me.

I wasn't trying to engage with you about CC, I was pointing out that you were trying to score a point and had used a short witty reply that was obviously fallacious. I wasn't saying your beliefs are wrong, I was trying to tell you to use a better argument next time.

About your agnosticism:
Do you have the knowledge base to objectively evaluate western medicine or are you agnostic about that?
Are you agnostic about jet engines or avionics, or do you trust the engineers and maintenance folks enough to fly on airlines despite not understanding all that goes into commercial aviation?
Do you know all the policy decisions that go into the military in whatever country you reside and how it is used and deployed or are you agnostic about how you are defended against invasion?

You are trying to have it both ways here. You make statements about the climate situation pre-historically and then make predictions about what is going to happen and you call governments discussing action to avert what they think is a looming problem as "CC/AGW propaganda session".
Then you try and duck any pushback by saying you are agnostic about the topic because you don't have the knowledge to defend your beliefs.

You want to proclaim your beliefs whatever they are, FINE. But own your beliefs and learn how to defend them.

[evm1024]

Just to add fuel to the fire.


I guess I should not have those 4 vodkas with dinner - Ukraine wife et al)

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

You've been advocating for the forum to ban CC threads for awhile now, along with other hot-button topics (as you say) that you don't happen to approve of.

...It's hardly just you these days, but I fail to understand what exactly is so irksome -- perhaps even threatening to some -- about other people discussing or even reading a topic which you or someone else may not approve of (within reasonable bounds obviously). Not only is it blatantly presumptuous, but it ignores the self-correcting, educational value of open discussion and civil debate.

Like the OP, at one time I thought that the non-boating hot-button issues, that can be found festering everywhere, didn't need another home on CF. I haven't really brought it up recently, as I better understand the position of the mods with regards to these, and I appreciate their accomodation of COVID topics at this time.

My position isn't that complex or inconsistent. I think I've shown often enough my willingness to engage meaningfully with people who disagree with me, if there's an honest intent to discuss. For those who are just trafficking in popular distortions, flogging their partisanship, are being intellectually dishonest, or who are just there to kick a beehive or two... I don't have Mike's patience, and I'm ok with that.

But your advocating for this seems like more of a call for censorship based solely on content, and not for lack of relevance to a sailing/cruising forum as you claim.

I hang out here mainly because most CF longtime members share my passion for boats and boating, and are sincere and thoughtful folks. As I tried to state above, I'm up for an honest exchange of ideas. If a non-boating thread is just people sniping at each other from their respective partisan hills, or trolling for LOLz, I don't think it's of much benefit to CF, other than eyeballs and ads. Mods often agree.

The bottom line is if you choose to engage people on controversial topics then you simply have to become more tolerant of the controversy that will inevitably ensue. CF does not, cannot, and should not function as an arbiter of the merit or value of any particular issue, and neither should any of us.

I have no problem with controversy. I feel no obligation to be kind or tolerant to those who aren't interested in an honest and intelligent discussion. People can ignore me as easily as any other poster.

Besides as some have noted, I'm just a lackey of the New World Order, paid by the post. Would you steal the bread from my mouth, or the boat from my dock?

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Just to add fuel to the fire.


I guess I should not have those 4 vodkas with dinner - Ukraine wife et al)

From climate myth busting site. https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php?a=7&p=11


Here is one from NASA but I guess you cant trust them...



https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

No one denies warming is cyclic but this time is simply going to be worse.

[Island Time O25]

OP's request is the proverbial solution in search of a problem. Or may be the ignore button is missing or not working on his interface.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

OP's request is the proverbial solution in search of a problem. Or may be the ignore button is missing or not working on his interface.

Have to agree, if you don't like it move along.
Some posters have been suggesting an enforced censorship, even if I understand correctly an automated algorithmic version, heaven forbid.
Bottom line, if you don't like it, move along.You don't have to read or respond if it offends or upsets your sensibilities.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Relative to changing something you wrote after the edit function doesn't work, you have two options that I'm aware of. You can post again, and say something like, "I was thinking about what I wrote back at post x, and want to say this is how I am now thinking about it: _________________."

If you re-think something after someone's input, you can just thank them, and move on to what you now would like to say, in a new post, thus keeping the "chat" going.

The other way is by using the PM function, the report post button, or the contact us button, ask a moderator to open a post (telling us the post number and a link to the thread) for you to edit, suggesting a time window. We can open it for a period during which it will be open for you to work on it. Then we come back and close it again. What's tricky is figuring out which moderators are in your time zone for it to be more convenient for you. You can figure this out by looking at a number of their posts times of day, and learn the range of the hours they normally post, which times are most often shown.

Obviously, the first two methods probably flow better from the writer's point of view.



Ann

What I would like to see as a person who admits to knowing little about a lot of things cruising is a "like" button so that when a point is made i can assess how many people simply agree with the comment... rather than (as in this thread) trying to count "i agree!" Posts vs "shut up you should let people talk" comments. The thank you button is great but it is not seen by anyone.

This maybe especially so when the answer is opinionated but quite simple in context.. just a suggestion :-)

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I feel no obligation to be kind or tolerant to those who aren't interested in an honest and intelligent discussion.

I'd say you don't judge honesty or intelligence well, nor find value in respectful disagreement. Instead, your criteria is decidedly not honesty nor intelligence, but rather opinions you don't agree with. Even now, your reply implies that those who don't agree with you are dishonest and unintelligent. This is just more labeling and not a substitute for thoughtful discussion. It places the focus on the person rather than his/her ideas. This is what creates unnecessary controversy, not the politics, ideas or opinions that you or anyone else happen to hold.

Besides, what you stated above violates CF rules. There are other forums where your lack of a sense of obligation to be kind and tolerant would make for a better fit.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Yihang

From climate myth busting site. https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php?a=7&p=11

People are still using Cook & Co as an authority? Really?

[StuM]

Deleted - sorry I started to get sucked into the CC debate yet again.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The beautiful thing about forums is, no one is forced to participate in any conversation they find distasteful. If you don't like the thread, don't read it. If it really bothers you, put it on your ignore list.

I fully agree there is way too much American politics. But again, no one is forcing you to read it, and certainly not to participate in it. If a thread devolves into silliness, just move on. That's what I do. No big deal.

I don't get this drive to control what others say.

What bothers me more are those who substitute insults for discussion or debate. That I have no time for, and nor do the mods. But politics DO matter for cruisers.

I speak against the motion .

I am against the motion also. A politically motivated position no doubt.

[B23iL23]

So my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I read CF less and less not because I sail less (I sail more) but because of the poor moderation. I hate the politics, I hate the thread drift which is rampant, I really dislike how derogatory and abusive other posters can be (and I have been on the receiving end).

Another site I frequent has a rule - "be excellent to one another", and it's enforced. One transgression and you are on the naughty step for 30 days (suspended), 2 strikes and it's 90 days, 3 strikes and it's a permanent ban. Keeps everyone civil , keep everyone focussed and also there is less work for the mods to do as the community understand what's allowed and what's not. it's almost self policing.

It's a real shame that CF is how it is. This could be a great forum but it's become too U.S. focussed, too much politics, too much shouting and less and less about helping each other and learning from each other.