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Old 30-07-2020, 13:42   #31
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Guess that rules out all singlehanders then. No more Vendee Globe, Trans Pac or so many other singlehanded races.

The oldest singlehanding woman Jeanne Socrates, to circumnavigate non-stop was 77. This was not cruising, no outside help. Spent 2 months repairing her torn mainsail at sea. Record was broken by Bill Hatfield, 81 who chose to go the opposite way (more difficult) as well.

Not everyone has multiple people on board. If you do, then keeping watch is a good thing. For myself, singlehanding, I'm not on watch 24/7. I do have radar and AIS (transceiver) that I rely on. Close to shore.... I'm up all the time.

I agree these are incredible events and feats. Single-handers are probably among the best sailors around. They have to be. However that doesn't mean it's not a foolish practice.

Risking the lives of 250 sailors on a Chilean frigate to go out and rescue a single-hander in the middle of the Southern Ocean because his/her keel or mast fell off his/her ultra-light boat is, to my mind, the height of selfishness. Mind you, this observation applies almost equally to fully crewed boats (the Volvo series) doing equally foolish things. It's just so much easier for a single-hander to get into trouble and need rescuing.
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Old 30-07-2020, 13:56   #32
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Guess that rules out all singlehanders then. No more Vendee Globe, Trans Pac or so many other singlehanded races.

The oldest singlehanding woman Jeanne Socrates, to circumnavigate non-stop was 77. This was not cruising, no outside help. Spent 2 months repairing her torn mainsail at sea. Record was broken by Bill Hatfield, 81 who chose to go the opposite way (more difficult) as well.

Not everyone has multiple people on board. If you do, then keeping watch is a good thing. For myself, singlehanding, I'm not on watch 24/7. I do have radar and AIS (transceiver) that I rely on. Close to shore.... I'm up all the time.
While I love my wife and prefer to cruise as a couple, but I also have done a lot of single handing in the past and love that as well.

Sleeping in cat naps while single handing in the cockpit is completely possible and I've done it many times, but still has more risk than staying awake. But, you could argue that passage-making on a boat is risky no matter what, and you would be correct.

Going down below to sleep, in my opinion, should not be done by single handers, except if you heave to, which is a great way to handle getting some sleep when you need it as long as you're far enough off shore and out of shipping lanes.
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Old 30-07-2020, 14:09   #33
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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I agree these are incredible events and feats. Single-handers are probably among the best sailors around. They have to be. However that doesn't mean it's not a foolish practice.

Risking the lives of 250 sailors on a Chilean frigate to go out and rescue a single-hander in the middle of the Southern Ocean because his/her keel or mast fell off his/her ultra-light boat is, to my mind, the height of selfishness. Mind you, this observation applies almost equally to fully crewed boats (the Volvo series) doing equally foolish things. It's just so much easier for a single-hander to get into trouble and need rescuing.
Well, if you want to go down this road how far do we go down? It is not fair by your definition to have anyone go out in their ski boats, power boats, jet skis, canoes, sailboats etc as all of them are at an increased risk of danger and having someone go out to rescue them.

I understand what you're saying but life is for living and people being people have different risk tolerances. I'd be very interested if there are any statistics on rescues numbers between crewed boats and singlehanders. Statistically, accounting for for the difference in numbers between the 2 groups I'd bet they're equal or you'd find singlehanders are actually less. The reason for that is because singlehanders are just that. By themselves. They know that going into it and prep hard for it. Speaking of statistics, I wonder, worldwide, just how many boats need rescuing per year vs the number of boats out there? Again, a very small number but gets a lot of headlines.

BTW, as Captain on Megayachts, my nightly watch schedule was 2 on 4-6 off depending on # of crew. I found that pretty much no matter how tired you were, you could manage a 2 hour watch.
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Old 30-07-2020, 14:23   #34
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Because 24/7 watchkeeping is not possible I don't consider single-handed passage-making to be safe. It should be discouraged or even outlawed.
Discouraged, sure. But outlawed? No thanks. If you outlaw this (not even sure how you would), then what else do you want to outlaw? Solo canoeing? Camping? Hiking?

If you can prove that single-handed passage making is significantly more dangerous, then you might get some where with this. I've never seen such data, but maybe it exists.

Personally, I think solo racing is nuts, especially in these water sleds that only shares a passing resemblance with most sailboats. That's a whole other kettle of fish compared to solo passage making in a well found cruising vessel.
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Old 30-07-2020, 14:48   #35
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Because 24/7 watchkeeping is not possible I don't consider single-handed passage-making to be safe. It should be discouraged or even outlawed.


(I expect I will catch a lot of flack for this one).

The title of the thread suggested something a bit more interesting - anyway . . .



To outlaw single-handing would seriously impact cruising as we know it. A significant percentage of cruisers are single-handers for at least some of their passages. On the other hand, it would increase demand for crew, which might give more young folks a chance to get ocean experience.



I'm in the minority. I watch from about 11PM to sunrise and sleep on the settee during the day in 3 hour shifts between checking on the boat, so my wife can call me easily from the cockpit. The all-night watch doesn't bother me, except the last day of the passage, timing our arrival in anchorage early in the day as one should, then having to launch dinghy and go ashore to do a long check-in process, it gets a bit tiring.
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Old 30-07-2020, 15:34   #36
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

We have always spent far more time anchored that sailing. Even in later years with good a gps anchor alarm I still glance out at night. We use a watch system when traveling that suits us well. It is 5-5-4-4-3-3. For us it goes 7am to noon, noon to 5 pm, 5pm to 9 pm, 9 pm to 1 am, 1 am to 4 am and 4 am to 7 am. During daylight hours because the boat steers herself mostly, we allow each other to nap if need be.
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Old 30-07-2020, 15:35   #37
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

I'll just say that most people are at anchor, 90-95% of the time.
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Old 30-07-2020, 15:38   #38
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

I worry more about over crowded vessels safety where maybe everyone assumes someone else is doing what needs doing, take for instance the Titanic.
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Old 30-07-2020, 15:56   #39
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

[QUOTE=TheNomadicAspie;3197458]The wife and I
The wife?
What century are you in?
At least call your partner the admiral. After all, she has the final say!!
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Old 30-07-2020, 16:12   #40
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

I had a multi-hull, a trimaran, and this had an aft double berth with en-suite. It was only ever used in a marina or when beached remotely. The rest of the time, only short naps and the odd siesta when lying to a secure anchor in a calm anchorage would a full sleep by both if us be possible, and even then, I would get up by force of habit every couple of hours and have a quick shufti at tide and tackle.

At sea there is no way a double berth gets used for a full nights sleep by both parties. We used four hour watches, some use three. Four is better, because one gets tired enough to sleep, then sleeps a little longer. Three hours people often remain unable to sleep and then they are awake for SIX hours and that is when people fall asleep on watch.

When single-handed cruising, one needs to sleep close to the helm, which usually means a quarter berth aft on a monohull, or in the cockpit itself.

The reason one needs to be near the helm is the instruments, such as a radar proximity alarm, or any other proximity alarm one might have based on a constant signal transmitter/receiver which all commercial vessels are SUPPOSED to have turned on at all times, and which all sea-going yachts SHOULD have as a priority.

Sometimes electronics are the ONLY warning you will get on an overcast night filled with rain and not a star in sight, and rain obscures a vessel's navigation lamps, which in a large ocean are not always visible unless the vessel is momentarily on top of a wave.

If you are nodding off, that loud electronic alarm will get your attention. The same goes for anchor drag alarms, but I have my own fool-proof system for THAT.

I anchor fore and aft into any swell, and I run a third small anchor on a line well over the forequarter, and that goes to a drum on the same axle as a star wheel with hacksaw blades as spokes. On the end of each spoke is a bolt and nut and a washer, through the hole in the blade, and these catch on a stop in a support for a bell. It looks like a crucifix, which is what it is called.

When the pull is sufficient that the spoke bends and nut and bolt clears the stop on the arm on one side of the crucifix, the spoke springs forward and strikes the bell at the head.

It hits it a good ding, so NO ONE would miss THAT sound, even over some wind, and if you hear it twice you are definitely drifting or dragging.

It ONLY works when anchored fore and aft though. The boat can not swing to the anchor. Since it took about an afternoon to make it and all out of scrap material, it is the best system there is, Simple and reliable. The same system Nelson and all other captains of sailing ships through the centuries would have used.

MY GPS anchor alarm was simply not accurate enough, because the GPS is often switched to a lower sensitivity.
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Old 30-07-2020, 16:51   #41
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Some people are waaaaay too serious in typing and are way out of reality.
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Old 30-07-2020, 17:02   #42
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Our procedure is much the same as most of the above folks - but we have not done any long passages. This is mostly because I felt that it would be too much for us physically.



When we do an overnight passage - leaving in the evening and arriving at our destination sometime the next day - I try to sleep some during the day, but Bob has a lot of trouble sleeping during the day. He also has trouble sleeping when I am at the helm, and I can tell that because I can see the light go on in the head when he goes to pee. I am not strong enough to handle the sails on my own - except for the staysail, I can't raise or lower them on my own. I do my best to see that he has sufficient sleep. For myself, I have no trouble sleeping anywhere under almost any cricumstances.



When we anchor, I set an anchor watch, and I will also look out periodically to check. Bob sleeps perfectly well at anchor.



Bob had a heart attack at an uninhabited cay in the Bahamas. It took us 2 days to get back to Nassau where they diagnosed the heart attack and flew him to Miami to have a stent put in. That was in 2002. He was 65 years old - he didn't smoke, he ate healthy and he exercised. Otherwise he might not have survived. But I think I was right not to want to do what he wanted to do which was to sail out to Bermuda and down to the Virgin Islands. (I did not foresee such a drastic problem as a heart attack)



We are both find although 18 years older now than we were in 2002.
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Old 30-07-2020, 17:23   #43
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Discouraged, sure. But outlawed? No thanks. If you outlaw this (not even sure how you would), then what else do you want to outlaw? Solo canoeing? Camping? Hiking?

If you can prove that single-handed passage making is significantly more dangerous, then you might get some where with this. I've never seen such data, but maybe it exists.

Personally, I think solo racing is nuts, especially in these water sleds that only shares a passing resemblance with most sailboats. That's a whole other kettle of fish compared to solo passage making in a well found cruising vessel.
I forget the rule number and such, but there is an obligation to stand a proper watch whilst underway. Singlehanding is effectively outlawed for more than a day or so underway. Of course, this is a self regulating issue. Offending singlehanders don't survive to face the legal consequences of their actions.
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Old 30-07-2020, 17:26   #44
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Hooo boy! Cruisers Forum never disappoints.

Those who have cruised for more than a couple of months here and there can easily spot the kind of cut & paste BS regurgitated hearsay "knowledge" that those who haven't tend to contribute to questions like this here and other such sites.

Watching YouTube to learn cruising is like watching a lawyer show on TV instead of going to law school. Entertaining -maybe, but educational? Perhaps for what not to do, or "how to make money by pimping your GF/wife out making softcore pron videos wearing skimpy clothing."

If you really want to learn about what cruising is really all about try to find a crew position with some real cruisers with documentable experience who will let you tag along and show you the ropes for a few weeks. Passages are great but you really want to learn how to pick anchorages, make plans and routes with weather planning and alternate plans/bailouts.

You also want to learn the basic mechanics of how to make the boat go from anchor up all the way to anchor down and all the steps in between. Not many schools will teach you that but they are out there such as Morse Alpha and the like. They aren't cheap. Instead you might be able to find a crew position for just the cost of helping out with provisioning and operating costs.

Try to find something in the areas you want to cruise. If you plan to do the ICW in the US then try and get something there. If you want to do the Loop, find some experienced loopers looking for help. It might be a long shot but worth trying.
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Old 30-07-2020, 17:34   #45
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Re: Sleeping as a couple?

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Hooo boy! Cruisers Forum never disappoints.

Those who have cruised for more than a couple of months here and there can easily spot the kind of cut & paste BS regurgitated hearsay "knowledge" that those who haven't tend to contribute to questions like this here and other such sites.

Watching YouTube to learn cruising is like watching a lawyer show on TV instead of going to law school. Entertaining -maybe, but educational? Perhaps for what not to do, or "how to make money by pimping your GF/wife out making softcore pron videos wearing skimpy clothing."

If you really want to learn about what cruising is really all about try to find a crew position with some real cruisers with documentable experience who will let you tag along and show you the ropes for a few weeks. Passages are great but you really want to learn how to pick anchorages, make plans and routes with weather planning and alternate plans/bailouts.

You also want to learn the basic mechanics of how to make the boat go from anchor up all the way to anchor down and all the steps in between. Not many schools will teach you that but they are out there such as Morse Alpha and the like. They aren't cheap. Instead you might be able to find a crew position for just the cost of helping out with provisioning and operating costs.

Try to find something in the areas you want to cruise. If you plan to do the ICW in the US then try and get something there. If you want to do the Loop, find some experienced loopers looking for help. It might be a long shot but worth trying.
Odd post. I'm fine with folks all across the learning curve. From YouTube to been there / done that. Knowledge is not linear and comes at different paces for different people.
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