Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-07-2020, 17:35   #46
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,641
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Cruising overall is pretty easy. Even passages are pretty easy unless you are too stupid to track the forecast for a week prior.

Don't let books or internet forums convince you otherwise.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 18:25   #47
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 17,553
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Offending singlehanders don't survive to face the legal consequences of their actions.
There are legions of "offending singlehanders" who survive to sail again... and again...and again.

Yes, singlehanded passage making does abrogate the SOLAS rules, but in practice there are damn few examples of SHers coming to grief due to failure to stand watch.

It is a pretty common practice... we encounter plenty of successful SH sailors out cruising. And yes, I'm sure that a few have disappeared at sea for unknown reasons, much as a few crewed boats have disappeared. IMO there is no doubt that SHing involves a higher risk level that sailing with crew, but whether that increase is significant has not been proven to my satisfaction.

The apocryphal stories of ships with yacht rigging hanging from their anchors have one thing in common: no photographic evidence of the story!

So, in the whole, I doubt if there are many (any?) real cases of SH sailors escaping legal consequences due to their death at sea.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 18:39   #48
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 9,998
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I forget the rule number and such, but there is an obligation to stand a proper watch whilst underway. Singlehanding is effectively outlawed for more than a day or so underway. Of course, this is a self regulating issue. Offending singlehanders don't survive to face the legal consequences of their actions.
Yes, I suppose. But there are a lot of things that are in the regs that are routinely not followed to the letter.

Like I said, I have never seen any data or stat to suggest single-handers run afoul at any greater rate than other crew compliments. This may indeed be the case, but I'd want to see actual evidence, not just conjecture.

Just for the record, I have only single-handed on very short runs, and never over 24 hrs. I personally think this would be hard -- harder than I would like. But I know many cruisers who do single-hand, and while it's not for me, I don't think it's necessarily more dangerous than cruising as a couple, or even with a crew of three or four.

It's just harder.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 18:55   #49
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,664
Images: 2
pirate Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Its only harder if you are not happy with your own company.. thats why there are thousands who only voyage with crew and a handful who solo..
Few care to die alone and SOLAS makes a great justification..
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 18:58   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Ensenada
Boat: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Posts: 1,342
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
There are legions of "offending singlehanders" who survive to sail again... and again...and again.

Yes, singlehanded passage making does abrogate the SOLAS rules, but in practice there are damn few examples of SHers coming to grief due to failure to stand watch.

It is a pretty common practice... we encounter plenty of successful SH sailors out cruising. And yes, I'm sure that a few have disappeared at sea for unknown reasons, much as a few crewed boats have disappeared. IMO there is no doubt that SHing involves a higher risk level that sailing with crew, but whether that increase is significant has not been proven to my satisfaction.

The apocryphal stories of ships with yacht rigging hanging from their anchors have one thing in common: no photographic evidence of the story!

So, in the whole, I doubt if there are many (any?) real cases of SH sailors escaping legal consequences due to their death at sea.

Jim
It's irresponsible. Unless you have zero loved ones who might miss you and are sailing in areas of zero traffic, it's irresponsible.
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 19:12   #51
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 9,998
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
It's irresponsible. Unless you have zero loved ones who might miss you and are sailing in areas of zero traffic, it's irresponsible.
Some say sailing offshore in any small craft is irresponsible.

I don't think it advances the discussion to label people with personal moralistic accusations. Solo sailing is not in itself irresponsible. It is a risk, just like the rest of life.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 19:31   #52
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 17,553
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
It's irresponsible. Unless you have zero loved ones who might miss you and are sailing in areas of zero traffic, it's irresponsible.
Your opinion, stated as fact...

Now, I note that you list your location as Ensenada. Don't you know that there is a higher crime rate there than in, say, some place in rural New Hampshire? I reckon that it is irresponsible to your loved ones for you to take that additional risk, so please relocate yourself out of consideration for them.

Yep, silly, isn't it. Responsibility, while a noble concept, must have some defined limits, and to set those limits arbitrarily between SH sailing offshore and crewed sailing offshore is presumptuous IMO.

I doubt if your opinion will change, and that's ok. But public shaming SH sailors by application of your opinion isn't a great thing to do, again IMO.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 19:42   #53
Registered User
 
chrisr's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Tasman 40' catamaran
Posts: 1,008
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

on passage, the owner (aka known as my long suffering wife debbie) and i share night watches - although i usually do say 4hrs and she does 3hrs. night watches are on deck. daytime watches are less formal...so long as one of us is awake and pops a head out every now and then it's ok

at anchor it depends. usually keep the gps anchor alarm on for the first 24hrs. if you haven't moved by then, chances are you're not going to.

if weather is very bad and / or holding ground dodgy, then we have been known to keep anchor watches, but this is extremely rare (2 nights in the last year ?). this respect did i see earlier some goose saying to keep anchor watch as a normal routine ? ridiculous - never heard of anybody doing such except large commercial vessels !

cheers,
__________________
"home is where the anchor drops"...still at Lake Mac / Pittwater...heading north soon... maintaining social distancing !
chrisr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 20:44   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 1,169
Sleeping as a couple?

Typos
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 21:46   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 1,169
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Different view here. We are cruising to have a good time on the water. People have different tolerances to perceived risk and most tend to be risk averse, especially on the water. Anyone can take as much risk as she wants as long as she is not putting others in unnecessary danger.

Offshore (say, 25-30 nm out), whether day or night, there are just very few other vessels around. The risk of collision is very low unless you are in a shipping channel or busy commercial area. Large vessels offshore carry AIS to prevent collisions. As long as you have a tested and working AIS receive system, you would be pretty safe, as in the chance of hitting something big to damage you would be extremely low. Thus, both of you should be able to sleep for a few hours or through the night.
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2020, 23:23   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Boat: Island Packet, Packet Cat 35
Posts: 600
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I
Of course, this is a self regulating issue. Offending singlehanders don't survive to face the legal consequences of their actions.
Single handers dont survive? Puhleeeease
Cpt Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2020, 00:22   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 4,536
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

We have a nice complimentary natural sleep cycle.

My girlfriend has insomnia at night. I have it in the early morning.

So she does 9pm to 3am and I do 3am to 9am. Fits our natural sleep tendencies. I think really taking a hard look at your actual (non watch) sleep patterns and finding a watch schedule that best fits them is the best of all.

Both of us would absolutely die doing each otherís shift but donít struggle too badly with the shifts we came up with.

During the day we just do whatever with me taking the vast majority of it.

That said, anchoring each night to get real sleep is WAY better
Chotu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2020, 01:01   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Ensenada
Boat: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Posts: 1,342
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Some say sailing offshore in any small craft is irresponsible.

I don't think it advances the discussion to label people with personal moralistic accusations. Solo sailing is not in itself irresponsible. It is a risk, just like the rest of life.
The Navigation Rules are very clear. Rule 5 requires an "eyes and ears" watch. Rule 2 states there are no extenuating circumstances. If you think these are somehow guidelines or recommendations or best-efforts, great. But that is a personal decision to ignore the Rules. Sailors are quick to complain when a Powerboat forces them to alter course when you're under sail, or when a port-tack sailboat doesn't yield to a starboard tack one (and rightfully so).

I get that there's a certain romanticism about single handing - Bernard Moitessier and all. But you can't have it both ways. You can't chime in about standing a manned watch but give a pass to single handers. There is no "A" for effort.

Peter
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2020, 01:25   #59
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 1,469
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Even standing watch there is still a chance you could have a collision, no systems perfect.
Cheers
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...655-story.html
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2020, 01:44   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Ensenada
Boat: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Posts: 1,342
Re: Sleeping as a couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Your opinion, stated as fact...

Now, I note that you list your location as Ensenada. Don't you know that there is a higher crime rate there than in, say, some place in rural New Hampshire? I reckon that it is irresponsible to your loved ones for you to take that additional risk, so please relocate yourself out of consideration for them.

I doubt if your opinion will change, and that's ok. But public shaming SH sailors by application of your opinion isn't a great thing to do, again IMO.
What is fact is that long range singlehanding cannot be done in accordance with the Rules of Navigation. It simply cannot be done. Full stop.

As far as an analogy, try this: I tell my friends and family I'm going to drive cross country. There's some mild risk of an accident. But what if I tell them my plan is to go non-stop and ignore inconvenient traffic laws? If there's no obvious cross-traffic, why bother stopping at signal lights and stop signs? Do you really need to slow-down for a school zone if you don't see children? Driving for 36-hours straight shouldn't be too hard, right?

In short, I'm not railing on single-handers or somehow passing moralistic judgement. I'm railing on not standing a proper watch. 100% of long distance single-handers fall into that category. I'm surprised that's an unpopular opinion.

Peter
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Singlehanding - Sleeping - Good Idea ? kingfish The Sailor's Confessional 332 24-02-2018 04:51
Sleeping Question...Feet or Head in... capcook Liveaboard's Forum 30 19-02-2010 09:34
Sleeping Arrangments Meerkat Multihull Sailboats 13 07-09-2009 17:46
Sleeping Patterns for Live-Aboards? Pelagic Liveaboard's Forum 11 12-06-2008 19:51

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.