Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[fuentes]

[QUOTE=BandB;2559708]Wifey B: A unique love story. Christina is the mother of perhaps our best friend. She was born in Spain, came to the US for school, met an American and lived happily ever after with him and her daughter until he died.

When he died, in so many ways so did she. She ran home to daddy in Spain, became almost a little girl again and was miserable. She even had trouble around her daughter, who she loves so much, as her daughter reminds her so much of her husband. See, her daughter has her father's business acumen and her mother's incredible beauty.

Somehow, her daughter talked her into joining us for a couple of weeks when we were cruising in Alaska. We were on an 85' boat which she referred to as a cute little boat. She'd never been on anything under 200'. Yes, her parents were wealthy and that's the world she grew up in.
Beautiful story! You have restored my belief that it is possible to have a fried
The first night after she arrived, my hubby walked her up to the flybridge. Now, my hubby is the world's biggest flirt without doing so intentionally. He doesn't realize that compliments after compliments is flirting to the person receiving them. That said, he flirts with young girls and old women. When he says the things he does though, he truly means them. He told her how beautiful she was and shared what he knew of her from her daughter. He talked to her about how heartbroken he'd be if anything happened to me, but our commitment to each other to go on in life. He told her he now saw where her daughter got her beauty and how irresistably beautiful she was as the sun was setting late at night. He told her that she wasn't being fair to herself or her deceased husband. He asked her what would he want for her and the obvious answer was happiness. He instilled the thoughts in her that while she might never love again as she did him, she could love again. He spoke to her about my belief, and his, that love is infinite, that it doesn't mean she loves her husband less if she finds happiness now. That if he, my husband, found himself on the flybridge falling for this beautiful older lady, it didn't mean he loved me less. He just asked her to enjoy the trip and to try to see herself again as this wonderful lady, beautiful and desirable lady, with a beautiful smile and a cute little giggle even. He said to her that he hoped she wasn't offended by him saying how desirable he found her. He said he guessed it was time they went back in but could he have one kiss. Then he leaned in and kissed her. The first kiss of her life by a man other than her husband. They walked back in arm in arm, both smiling. Her daughter mischievously asking what they did up there, my husband saying a gentleman never tells.

He became the friend she could talk honestly to and she moved to West Palm and has found it within her to live life fully. She immersed herself in the arts and charity as she had been when married in New York. She made many girlfriends. She occasionally went to dinner and events with men. She now has a man friend that she'll probably never marry but they are both widowed and very much enjoy their time with each other.

Maybe on that night she fell a bit in love with my hubby, but mostly she fell in love again with herself and saw herself through my hubby's eyes, much as her husband had seen her. The woman her husband had loved so much now returned and we're all so lucky to know her.

You could see the difference as she experienced Alaska, the beauty, nature. Christina was aglow once again. The beautiful woman her husband loved so much was back. Carmen had her mom back. Mischievously, she'll still occasionally kiss my hubby right in front of all of us. She said later that the night on the bridge she remembered the first time she met her husband and the man she fell in love with, when all she'd been able to see for two years was the man she buried.

Beautiful story. You have restored my belief that it is possible to have friends of the opposite sex, give compliments, even have affection for each other, without all those other situations coming into play. Thank you.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by fuentes

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That is where I learned to appreciate country music from Stockton, Sacramento, Modesto and Bakersfield,California. I still find triangulating useful on the water. The best part of using all this old technology is that it drives my three sons crazy. Now I have the long hair, do foolish things and embarrass them. Paybacks are great!

Many of us have gone that route, too. Lots of us right here. Stick around and you'll find we're pretty good conversationalists. This thread is a perfect example.

Long hair? I try, but I can't get my ponytail to stick to my chrome dome!

Foolish things? Hey, we're sailors, ain't we???

[gamayun]

Beautiful story, WifeyB. I came across this today that reinforces why there is such power in a loving touch: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/o...iz-ansari.html

And conversely...how deadly an unloving touch can be

[cyan]

Gamayun, the guy who wrote that NYTimes article starts with interesting views regarding touch but then IMO he goes off the rails when he infers that the girl ("Grace") may have had previous sexual abuse and that Ansari should have been more sensitive to her signals because a guy might be with a damaged person without knowing it.

Frankly, the author's opinion and my opinion are just not too helpful, as we are dudes. More significant views are from women. 3 out 3 women I discussed this with came down VERY hard on Grace and said Ansari was unfairly accused. They all had been in similar situations and were angry at themselves for not simply leaving. However, I have to toss out one of those opinions after she stated that Aziz has such gentle eyes, so she doubted he did anything bad. (!)

Gamayun, if you have read the Babe article and possibly Ansari's responses, then I think we guys could honestly benefit from your opinion.

[weavis]

Im not one for love stories.
For one, its someone elses life, and for another, its about the values that the two people hold.
Having spent my working life in cultures different to my upbringing, love and events are viewed differently... romance is not the same.

My friend Bill married a woman from Sri Lanka in the days it was called Ceylon. I asked her once what was the most romantic thing in her life. She said it was that Bill insisted that she walked next to her and not behind and that sometimes he would cook for her....

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by cyan

Gamayun, the guy who wrote that NYTimes article starts with interesting views regarding touch but then IMO he goes off the rails when he infers that the girl ("Grace") may have had previous sexual abuse and that Ansari should have been more sensitive to her signals because a guy might be with a damaged person without knowing it.

Frankly, the author's opinion and my opinion are just not too helpful, as we are dudes. More significant views are from women. 3 out 3 women I discussed this with came down VERY hard on Grace and said Ansari was unfairly accused. They all had been in similar situations and were angry at themselves for not simply leaving. However, I have to toss out one of those opinions after she stated that Aziz has such gentle eyes, so she doubted he did anything bad. (!)

Gamayun, if you have read the Babe article and possibly Ansari's responses, then I think we guys could honestly benefit from your opinion.

Agree. The NYT article was curious when it deviated into the Ansari case. I almost didn't post it because of that. I have not read the Babe article, so don't know enough about Ansari's situation to form a strong opinion, but from the media reports I've read, it had seemed to me a case of consenting adults -- one of whom had pangs of regret afterwards. So yeah, I'm with you that the author went off the rails on suggesting that guys just need to be more sensitive to unspoken cues. On the other hand, it is through these stories that some women will learn to speak up when they feel someone is treating them poorly. I realize that's harder in the reality when there are concerns about keeping their jobs, getting to a safe environment, not wanting to upset someone, etc.

Here's one example. The other night, an older woman friend was telling me about the movie, Post, with Katherine Graham, which I hadn't seen yet. My friend was saying that one would think a person in Graham's position with her company and her financial status, would already know how to take charge, but there were all these men she was relying on to make the decisions for her. One could argue this was the way it was in the 50s, but it certainly was not that way for all women. I was raised by a strong, independent, single parent who moved to a foreign country in her early 20s to become a trapeze artist in the circus. Born in the mid-30s, she certainly had antiquated notions about men and women's roles, but these ideas also evolved as she raised three kids on her own with no support. She had traveled the country in her own trailer during her circus days, built all the furniture in our house because we had so little money, taught me how to change a tire, and made sure that the boys knew how to sew their own clothes. Personally, I think we get too stuck on defining gender roles and that traps women and men in ways they are unable to understand the other person. Maybe if more women learned to be assertive and assured of themselves, and more guys got into their sensitive side and maintained better lines of communication, perhaps the sexes would find more common ground.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by cyan

Gamayun, if you have read the Babe article and possibly Ansari's responses, then I think we guys could honestly benefit from your opinion.

OK, I read it and his response. The sexual details are extremely awkward. What was the point of that? We can never know the full story, but a few things in the article stand out to me, which the author should have discussed in more detail. First, their age difference (22 versus 34) was barely a footnote, but this does influence how she might have reacted to his aggression. She also says she used "verbal and non-verbal cues." By definition, a cue is a signal -- not an actual demand to stop. From her telling, it sounds as if he was being sexually aggressive and she didn't know how to leave when she first started feeling uncomfortable.

The most telling part to me is when she says, "I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that’s why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad.” Yes, it was bad. It was a bad sexual encounter. She has every right to be upset and to want to be validated in those feelings. He sounds like a real jerk. But, was it a crime or sexual harassment? It was not in my opinion, which has also been formed by direct experience because I was in her shoes at about the same age and in a story that was nearly identical to hers word for word. It sticks with a person for life, and not in a good way because it's extremely shameful. Calling men out for this behavior is a good thing because they are in the wrong when they are so clueless to another's discomfort. However, "Grace" will likely become stronger/more assertive because of it in the long run.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B: A unique love story. Christina is the mother of perhaps our best friend. She was born in Spain, came to the US for school, met an American and lived happily ever after with him and her daughter until he died.

When he died, in so many ways so did she...

...She said later that the night on the bridge she remembered the first time she met her husband and the man she fell in love with, when all she'd been able to see for two years was the man she buried.

Thank you Wifey B for the story. for me it speaks of tenderness and kindness. your husband instinctively knew how to help Christina attempt a specific stage in her healing, her grieving. she felt safe with him, safe enough to allow herself to return to the beginning of her love story. the 'platonic flirt' she had with your hubby (and you are so wonderful to give him this kind of space) really seems to have allowed her to move away from the end of her relationship with her husband, the painful part involving loss towards the part where she could find again that moment joy, the day she fell in love.

perhaps this sounds odd, but perhaps she was able to also rekindle the feeling of loving herself (once upon a time) before their relationship swallowed both of them up (not that this is a bad thing... but i'm thinking on this possibility, here).

after all, Christina did suffer an identity crisis after her hub's death: she ran home to daddy and became his little girl again...

this is interesting. i never thought of this before... perhaps people who, like Christina loved and lost, feel the need to resist the need/desire to get into a relationship again until their sense of self has returned?

There was a young man who popped in on us, Masou?, who said that he just moved onto his boat and has a home for the first time since he was 15 ... where is that post? he said that we just need to love ourselves and the rest will come...

thanks again Wifey B, for the story. You've got a wonderful husband and what seems to be a very well-fit relationship! Love him up, girl!

[Pelagic]

It seems to me that the main problem with sexual awkwardness stems from our inability to speak plainly and clearly about it

Starting with issues like....
Is Sexual sadomasochism a sidkness?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-sadomasochism

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

OK, I read it and his response. The sexual details are extremely awkward. What was the point of that? We can never know the full story, but a few things in the article stand out to me, which the author should have discussed in more detail. First, their age difference (22 versus 34) was barely a footnote, but this does influence how she might have reacted to his aggression. She also says she used "verbal and non-verbal cues." By definition, a cue is a signal -- not an actual demand to stop. From her telling, it sounds as if he was being sexually aggressive and she didn't know how to leave when she first started feeling uncomfortable.



The most telling part to me is when she says, "I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that’s why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad.” Yes, it was bad. It was a bad sexual encounter. She has every right to be upset and to want to be validated in those feelings. He sounds like a real jerk. But, was it a crime or sexual harassment? It was not in my opinion, which has also been formed by direct experience because I was in her shoes at about the same age and in a story that was nearly identical to hers word for word. It sticks with a person for life, and not in a good way because it's extremely shameful. Calling men out for this behavior is a good thing because they are in the wrong when they are so clueless to another's discomfort. However, "Grace" will likely become stronger/more assertive because of it in the long run.

Thank you gamayun. Your insight is much appreciated. Your take on this is very similar to the opinions that I have carefully gathered from women around me. It is quite enlightening to hear that you had a similar experience. One can only hope that such awkward encounters will now be better understood by (mainly) guys.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by cyan

Gamayun, the guy who wrote that NYTimes article starts with interesting views regarding touch but then IMO he goes off the rails when he infers that the girl ("Grace") may have had previous sexual abuse and that Ansari should have been more sensitive to her signals because a guy might be with a damaged person without knowing it.

.

I read the NY Times article... Geez, what a let down! the author gives significant support to the benefits of touch and affection, and just when we think we are get that warm and cozy feeling from an article that might perhaps expand the benefit of coupling touch with love and sex..., the author gives us HIS opinion on one of these sex scandals! why did he have to go and ruin the article?

as irresponsible as this sounds, i have utterly and completely tuned out of all the sexual assault scandals and stories that are hitting the fan (primarily over there, but a bit here in europe too). it is not that i'm insensitive to it, to the contrary. that said, the one thing that stands out as being constructive in this article is when the author points to that moment when a woman (but it is really true for either involved) feels as though she/he has lost control.

it is a delicate subject... and at the risk of sounding cold (as i'm out of touch with all these stories that are coming out - do not know who these folks are, etc), i agree with gamayun (who is my age)... it sounds like this girl had what most women of our generation calls "a bad experience."

think about it, western society traditionally didn't prepare us for communicating about sex as young women. no one warned me that the sensations would disrupt my ability to think and make quick decisions. nor did anyone warn me that the same goes for boys (with different results). i was flat-chestedly shy back then (and didn't explore much), but this is still something i figured out.

My point is that, in my young days, most young women "unpreparedly found out" how different the two sexes react on their own (and perhaps most young men did too). at some point we also figured out that nature has set it up so that most young women give sex for love and that most young men give love for sex. and once we figured this much out, a 'bad experience' tended to become more avoidable...

over the last thirty years, girls of my generation have learned that, if we want it, we get naked first ; and if we don't, we must refuse to get undressed, be undressed (not quite so literally, but it is still all about giving clear signals...). and most importantly, we learned that the point-of-no-return is out there, perhaps, but its gps reading changes with perspective and doesn't depend solely on ours.

i lived in the middle east for a while in the late 80s, where i initially struggled with the way women hid their hair and their bodies. but in no time, my focus shifted to the way men treated me. i struggled more with the way the men all gawked/drooled/fantasized at and about me, mostly in a demeaning way... (it was horrendous - i ended up doing like the other women and hid myself too! if i wasn't a copper-blonde, i may have had less trouble... which is sad in itself.). ---- BUT it was wonderful the day i realized that, with liberty comes responsibility: i learned that whereas western society allows me to openly enjoy being desired, flirting, and making decisions involving temptation (joni mitchell-style), it has also left me with the responsibility to protect myself from allowing men to take advantage of me (not that this is always possible, granted, but this is where i can also categorize the experience as rape - let's not go here...).

i think it was Montaigne who wrote, la clarté est une vertue (clarity is a virtue, i.e., being clear is a virtue).

experience has taught me that being clear is the best that i can do, and this is what i've taught my daughter. for the rest, it is more about learning self-defense, because most girls my age are also keenly aware of the fact that those who do harm shamelessly are out there.


that said, we do need to take into account that not all of us operate with the same amount of empathy. taking this to the extreme: serial killers are the ONLY humans who do not yawn contagiously (they do not yawn when other people yawn, etc), and this, because they have no empathy.
i'm writing this half jokingly, but imagine if dating services were to offer people empathy-matches... they'd probably make a killing!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

It seems to me that the main problem with sexual awkwardness stems from our inability to speak plainly and clearly about it

Starting with issues like....
Is Sexual sadomasochism a sidkness?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-sadomasochism

Its all down to ones 'Programing' in my opinion..
I've known folks who seem normal on the outside but once in a relationship feel a need to provoke situations that lead to abuse and on occasion violence from their partners.. and who when that relationship has fallen apart gone on to seek out another partner with low anger management and it starts all over again.
I figure folks who get into consenting S&M are people who have come to terms with the conditioning of their youth and found a way to satisfy their personal perceptions of sexual fulfilment and love in a mutually beneficial way that allows them to live a normal public life and a fulfilling private one.
It sometimes surprise's folk when they learn what they may.. or may not have programmed into their offspring's psyche.
Like most forms of sexual gratification.. S&M is only a sickness or crime if performed on a non consenting partner..
Who are we.. in our arrogance, to define the borders of this thing called LOVE.

[sailorboy1]

For us in the USA it's all the Pilgrims and Puritans fault even after all these years.

[boatman61]

Doubt the Pilgrims and Puritans would have been into strip joints and pole dancers.. though doubtless they would have been happily scandalised by the behaviour of the 'savages' and inspired to some novel to them romping behind closed doors..
But seriously.. programming and 'coding' are often overlooked in many things.. take for example the desire to give a woman a 'Hickey'.. a dangerous practice that can when given to the neck or inner thigh cause a stroke.. in NZ a girl suffered a stroke as a result of a 'Love' bite.. a partial recovery left her unable to use an arm.. in Mexico a boy died when a clot reached his brain resulting in a massive stroke.. just two events caused by this 'passion' some seem addicted to.
Why do folk do this.. could it be an ancient coding triggered by arousal that makes the male bite the neck or chin as a form of control over the female by seizing one of the vulnerable parts of the body to stop any resistance.. much the way a lion seizes the neck of the lioness putting her into compliance.
Lots of Psycho Babble out there but methinks its not that simple..

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Doubt the Pilgrims and Puritans would have been into strip joints and pole dancers.. though doubtless they would have been happily scandalised by the behaviour of the 'savages' and inspired to some novel to them romping behind closed doors..
But seriously.. programming and 'coding' are often overlooked in many things.. take for example the desire to give a woman a 'Hickey'.. a dangerous practice that can when given to the neck or inner thigh cause a stroke.. in NZ a girl suffered a stroke as a result of a 'Love' bite.. a partial recovery left her unable to use an arm.. in Mexico a boy died when a clot reached his brain resulting in a massive stroke.. just two events caused by this 'passion' some seem addicted to.
Why do folk do this.. could it be an ancient coding triggered by arousal that makes the male bite the neck or chin as a form of control over the female by seizing one of the vulnerable parts of the body to stop any resistance.. much the way a lion seizes the neck of the lioness putting her into compliance.
Lots of Psycho Babble out there but methinks its not that simple..

And reports of male and females dying during and after orgasms so, why chance it?
People die in auto accidents so why drive?
People die in bed so dont go to bed.
People choke on food and die, so dont eat.
People die of drugs so why take drugs.
People die of "natural causes" too
Basically, people die for one reason or another.