Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[Olddan1943]

In the last x number of years, I have never asked nor expected a woman to pay for anything.
I can only conclude the rejection I am experiencing is do to my sterling personality. SHRUG

[john61ct]

> somebody fails to see the humor

A very common problem

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Exile

Boy, even when Third Day says he's trying to be funny somebody fails to see the humor.

So now those of us who opt for the cruising lifestyle have joined the oppressed, regardless of wealth?? No wonder guys like Third Day are so confused!

I try exile...I really do.
I'm almost tempted to give up, but then who would be the voice of sanity in an insane world? Who would stand up to the evil forces of Cultural Appropriation of a white woman opening a Taco Cart? No...I can't give up...so I will fight by ordering another Taco and laughing at the cries of white priviladge.

[JPA Cate]

Well, you can have a couple for me, Rich: one fish taco, one carne asada soft taco. Thanks.

A.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

I try exile...I really do.
I'm almost tempted to give up, but then who would be the voice of sanity in an insane world? Who would stand up to the evil forces of Cultural Appropriation of a white woman opening a Taco Cart? No...I can't give up...so I will fight by ordering another Taco and laughing at the cries of white priviladge.

I know how hard you try, Third Day, and please don't give up now -- not when you're finally starting to get a grasp on all the trendy lingo. But ordering tacos from a white woman who has culturally appropriated a taco stand with none of the required sensitivities towards the culturally oppressed who continue to be exploited by those falsely empowered through their unearned privilege?? I'm sorry but now you've gone too far. But WAIT! There may be salvation! Are you not one of the oppressed water gypsies yourself, always feeling vulnerable to those who look down on you for living on your boat? Oh the suffering that must entail! The sacrifices you must endure without any empathy, to say nothing of being denied access to your safe space!

. . .

Soooo . . . you mind giving me the lat & long of that taco stand?

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

I try exile...I really do.
I'm almost tempted to give up, but then who would be the voice of sanity in an insane world? Who would stand up to the evil forces of Cultural Appropriation of a white woman opening a Taco Cart? No...I can't give up...so I will fight by ordering another Taco and laughing at the cries of white priviladge.

welcome to the party Third Day! every party needs someone to stir things up, break up the monotony, the consensus here and there )



Hey, here's an aspect of this whole X and Y discussion that we haven't really discussed on this thread yet, at least: the things we X and Y's like/dislike about live aboard and/or cruising sailboats!

here goes with how my ideal sailboat was forged:



ever since i lost hearing in one ear (yes, brown oarsman, i am like that parking lot joke, only i am both handicapped and out there), ever since i had kids, ever since i've needed reading glasses... my sense of smell has skyrocketed. How does this translate on sailboats?

Beside knowing where you've been all night, what you did yesterday, and which aftershave (oh, not that, anything but that!!!) you use, i can also tell you how long the boat has not been ventilated (if it is poorly ventilated, if there is a dead raccoon at the bottom of the fridge from last summer, if there is a leak, condensation and where, and if the head stinks.

yet, out of all the smells, the one that physically bothers me is the smell that plastic gets once the sea-mold grows. most days it isn't bad, but get me into rough weather and i go down under to do something, i'm bound to turn a bit green before i make it back up.

i once said thanks, no thanks to a crewing opportunity because when i went below to put my stuff down, i had to come right back up. that boat smelled of death to me, the sea-mold on the plastic was so bad.

another time, i got really seasick once on a very stinky-plastic dufour 43 that left normandy at midnight with no moon and raging seas... what were we thinking!

this was a sailing club venture destined for Brighton and back that didn't go that well. in the middle of the night's nowhere, things went from bad to worse. while water was flooding the cabin below from who knows where, a shackle up there holding the main broke, and the main came tumbling down. the steaming lights were on to shed light onto the skipper/instructor who was doing all he could to control the main without falling off (not tethered, of course!), so the waves around us were visually engulfing us. an experienced guy was on the helm pulling back and forth, back and forth, but i could tell that he was panicking... and of course there was no horizon to seek. we motored three hours back to where we came and never made it across the channel, opted to do a little coastal stint. i wasn't the first to get sick but i stayed sick for two long days because of the sea-mold smells below. took the life out of me.

Does anyone else, X or Y, find the same?

so there is criterion, number 1) good ventilation and loads of wood/teak below


As most on this thread know, i'm still boatless (and a yacht world addict) and, in any case, still in the lining-the-ducks-up but....

as far as boats go, i'm looking primarily at plastic classics built in the 1980's (up to 1993). i like sturdy old gals with thick hulls, good motion and with a cozy and -- to be good to my nose, lots of ports and very woody and/or teaky -- interior.

my first fling (and it is an on-going love story actually, but then i realized that this is where so many start their sailboat love stories - the HC33 really is a kind of homecoming queen) was with Harwood Ives' hans christian33.

yes, i know, the cockpit is way too small, and it is difficult to fix a decent bimini over it because of the set-up with the main, but, oh, below.... and me, who doesn't cook all that well: the galley! then there is the pullman berth!

i actually tracked every single HC33 i ever found on different boating sites on the internet over the last few years and have a comprehensive file on them (though recently misplaced it). in any case, i know a whole lot about these boats, their history, their collective and individual problems... i know which ones burned and sank, why and where. unfortunately, these boats are just so much to maintain.

since then i've had flirts with most of the bob perry boats: the passport 37, the freedom 36, though this one seems to have a recurring a bulkhead/cabin top issue and some have corrosion down at the base of the mast), the mirage, and the valiant 32 is still high on my short list, though i find them unpleasantly small below. (bob perry may never befriend me because of this: i'm taking a major risk!)

That said, I've been trying to steer clear of the Panda's, Tayana's, Baba's all this time, telling myself, it's got to be a boat i can handle with my physical strength and not-so-demanding when it comes to my pockets.

So there's another criterion: below 34', and because mooring shoots up in price once the boat length exceeds 33' in european marinas, preferably 33' or less.

there is also the pacific seacraft: the 34 (oops), mariah 31, the orion 27 and even the Dana 24! an expensive lot they are!

then there have been flirts with the mason 33 (solid, high-maintenance boat but the quality of the metals used in the rudder!), alejuela 33 (love the twin berths on each side of the companionway), cabo rico 34 (oops, but anyhow, from what i've found, it can list to port when the water tank below the v-berth is full), victoria 34 (oops, but anyway, without reconfiguring the jib set up, there's too much load on the main, too much for me to handle)... the rival 34 (oops and i'd need muscles for this one), the malo, and the baba 30 (what a sweat tea-cup of a boat, but, again, the cockpit and the maintenance...). there are the Eight-ton, the Guzzards (is that how we spell it?)... so many boats!

And the alberg, and the cape dory, the contessa, the nicholson are great boats but the narrowness below doesn't suit me.

so 3) i like beamy...

I'm looking for a gal that has a real home-feel below. and of course, being in europe also means that i've looked at the moody's (grief that fabric!) and the westerlys (the headliners, yuck) and the Gladiateur (yes, but not enough ventilation) and others... the list goes on and on, reasons for and against....

then i noted that the Moody makes a 33' with an aft cabin.... is it the eclipse? the aft cabin could be sweet! and this is where i forget about water length completely, displacement, speed, etc. this is where i forget if the thing actually sails!

so here we go another criterion, 4): aft cabin (mind you, this really doesn't leave many boats out there to choose from that are or below 33')

yet, i did find one... the one that takes the cake for me THESE DAYS (well-ventilated, beamy, loads of teak below, fantastic galley, aft cabin) is the nantucket island 33, a peter cole design, and, among these, only the ones made for the american market (not the auzzie-made). please google it and look at a sister NI33 that pops up on sail listings, Pirate Jenny, in canada. Oh, i'm in love!

the NI33 has been on my short-list for a while but since i shyed from the fin keel a bit, wondering how Blue it could be and since i imagined i'd never find one in europe anyway....

and then this summer, i stumbled upon a 1981 orphan on my side of the pond that came over from san francisco with its first owners long ago (a two-owner boat - if the owner is on here, HI!). she is here!

I want to go see her but need to really do some research first: beyond the fixable stuff (rebedding hatches, attacking corrosion to the pedestal and the mast), the owner (who seems to be a fantastic and honest person) said that water has been getting in through the hawse pipe and may have gotten into the core in the forepeak... (if there are experts out there, please pm me!)

this may be the reason for which he listed her for 37K$ and not 80K$ like her sister boats...? Oh My and Oh No! the boat is just too beautiful for this to happen! i have heard that core issues are to be avoided at all costs and need to do that research but cannot begin to make myself somehow. -- i feel paralyzed.

so now, now i'm faced with making a CHOICE

after watching the video i posted, one voice (ChiChi's because she is braver than me, it seems, especially when i'm hanging around with fellow sailors) in my head says, 'just cut your losses, get the boat, and then figure out the rest. once you have the boat, doing the rest will become a necessity anyhow. This voice also reminds me of how Time is the only thing you have that you cannot make more of. This voice is so incredibly loud, no wonder i lost hearing in one ear!

yet, when i'm not watching that video i posted earlier (over and over) another voice creeps around a corner (from the past) to tell me that i've got loads on my plate right now, that it is just too early for me to buy my boat, that i need to finish getting unstuck/untangled and get some income coming in (and have just encountered a major, major set-back for my in-city project...), the list goes on... oh and guys, i do not have a small salary.

anyhow, that's my story.

back to the the X's and Y's discussion, my feeling is that the things that shape our choices as females (if i may speak for us Y's) is probably another thing that escapes you guys or at least mystifies you guys, bewilders you guys, disenchants you guys, or even brings out full-fledged fights with you guys....


so, any other gals have any interesting experiences that shaped the criterion for a sailing home one way or another?

guys, i'd love to hear what you have to say as well. please be kind. we've made so much progress, and this aspect of our discussion could easily open an explosive can of worms.

[wolfgal]

oopps, wrote that i do not have a small salary but should have written: i do have a small salary

[john61ct]

Probably a topic deserving its own thread to get responses from a wider audience than just us following this IMO-run-its-course thread?

[Carat]

Originally Posted by Chichi

so, any other gals have any interesting experiences that shaped the criterion for a sailing home one way or another?

My life up to now has been controlled a narcissistic parent, and I have lived their life, not mine. If I hadn't been manipulated and controlled all these years, I'd be on a boat right now. For those who have dealt with true narcissists, you know how psychologically damaging it is and how hard it is to get out. I won't go into an extended life story, but I will say that it is a relief to finally be awake and detach from the person who has been so toxic to me for so long. So, I don't have any experiences that shaped my criterion for a sailing home except for feeling that I really want to do this and live my life the way I want to live it...and living on a boat is something I want to do...and will do. I just don't have the desire to nest with a house, mortgage, car, yard, furniture and so much clutter that come with life in the matrix. Not saying that's bad, it just isn't for me.

I started out wanting a power boat. I don't have experience sailing, so I am intimidated by sail boats. But I have a little more confidence in myself nowadays, and know that I can learn.

Anything above 27' around here is priced outrageous. I did find a 70's 27' Catalina for dirt cheap that I could buy now and move on to instead of waiting for my house to sell. But my information on sailboats is so limited right now that I am not confident I could make a wise purchase.

In conclusion, we all started at the beginning, so I hope I don't get flamed too much for being such a newb. :/

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Carat

My life up to now has been controlled a narcissistic parent, and I have lived their life, not mine. If I hadn't been manipulated and controlled all these years, I'd be on a boat right now. For those who have dealt with true narcissists, you know how psychologically damaging it is and how hard it is to get out. I won't go into an extended life story, but I will say that it is a relief to finally be awake and detach from the person who has been so toxic to me for so long. So, I don't have any experiences that shaped my criterion for a sailing home except for feeling that I really want to do this and live my life the way I want to live it...and living on a boat is something I want to do...and will do. I just don't have the desire to nest with a house, mortgage, car, yard, furniture and so much clutter that come with life in the matrix. Not saying that's bad, it just isn't for me.

I started out wanting a power boat. I don't have experience sailing, so I am intimidated by sail boats. But I have a little more confidence in myself nowadays, and know that I can learn.

Anything above 27' around here is priced outrageous. I did find a 70's 27' Catalina for dirt cheap that I could buy now and move on to instead of waiting for my house to sell. But my information on sailboats is so limited right now that I am not confident I could make a wise purchase.

In conclusion, we all started at the beginning, so I hope I don't get flamed too much for being such a newb. :/

hey girl! getting untangled/unstuck/uncaptive (note that word captive was used by Caroline Myss in the video) takes a lot! .... yes, lots of us finally wake from from the coma and just know it has got to be done: we need to free ourselves.

Bravo girl! Isn't the freedom fantastic, exhilarating and .... scary! you are at the beginning of the rest of your life that you are choosing. good for you for knowing what you want and striving for it.

and you are in the right place, too! i started by lurking and lurking and looking up words and lurking more. i sailed when i was young, but not enough (grew up on my dad's motorboat). many will suggest you join a sailing club. if you can, go for it! i find that getting on boats is the hardest part, because i'm far from the sea. i do what i can, when i can by taking classes (engine repair, marine electric systems, RYA dayskipper, Radio license, nav&seamanship, safety at sea, cpr...). crewing can be great but, if you look good in a bikini and are enthusiastic (ahem), try to crew for couples who are younger than you.

Carat, people say, believe in yourself, but, knowing just how hard this is when coming out of a damaging situation, i say, believe in what you want.

sailing is so wonderful, so wonderful, so wonderful! Sailboats are wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! and the same goes with the sailing community (mostly)!
and the SEA: get out there girl, there's nothing else on earth like it!

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Probably a topic deserving its own thread to get responses from a wider audience than just us following this IMO-run-its-course thread?

you are surely right John61...

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Carat

My life up to now has been controlled a narcissistic parent, and I have lived their life, not mine. If I hadn't been manipulated and controlled all these years, I'd be on a boat right now. For those who have dealt with true narcissists, you know how psychologically damaging it is and how hard it is to get out. I won't go into an extended life story, but I will say that it is a relief to finally be awake and detach from the person who has been so toxic to me for so long. So, I don't have any experiences that shaped my criterion for a sailing home except for feeling that I really want to do this and live my life the way I want to live it...and living on a boat is something I want to do...and will do. I just don't have the desire to nest with a house, mortgage, car, yard, furniture and so much clutter that come with life in the matrix. Not saying that's bad, it just isn't for me.

I started out wanting a power boat. I don't have experience sailing, so I am intimidated by sail boats. But I have a little more confidence in myself nowadays, and know that I can learn.

Anything above 27' around here is priced outrageous. I did find a 70's 27' Catalina for dirt cheap that I could buy now and move on to instead of waiting for my house to sell. But my information on sailboats is so limited right now that I am not confident I could make a wise purchase.

In conclusion, we all started at the beginning, so I hope I don't get flamed too much for being such a newb. :/

You might consider what a new-to-sailing friend of mine did, namely join a sailing club where he has access to a variety of different sized & types of cruising boats, and no shortage of other people eager to teach & join as crew. Your alternative of buying a cheap boat just to move onto for awhile could be fraught with a lot of expense & frustration. Even if it doesn't leave the dock until you figure out your next step, making it comfortable for living and then trying to sell it could get expensive.

I only say this as someone who has only owned one cruising boat and had to ride a steep & expensive learning curve to finally get it squared away. Hats off to others who manage to fix up and then swap out multiple boats, but if you're new to this world (as I was) the boat you have often winds up becoming the "devil you know," and perhaps worth keeping vs. starting all over again.

John61 is probably right that this may be better for a separate thread (many already out there). Unless you meet a compatible mate at the sailing club that is . . . .

Edit: ChiChi beat me to the idea of the sailing club!

[boatpoker]

Carat: There are some pretty decent people on this forum who would be willing to give some guidance in person if you gave City & State.

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by Chichi

hey girl! getting untangled/unstuck/uncaptive (note that word captive was used by Caroline Myss in the video) takes a lot! .... yes, lots of us finally wake from from the coma and just know it has got to be done: we need to free ourselves.

Bravo girl! Isn't the freedom fantastic, exhilarating and .... scary! you are at the beginning of the rest of your life that you are choosing. good for you for knowing what you want and striving for it.

Remember, you raise those kids so they will go away and build their own lives.
Teach them a lesson and sell the house so they cant sneak back in while you are out sailing.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Carat

I started out wanting a power boat. I don't have experience sailing, so I am intimidated by sail boats. But I have a little more confidence in myself nowadays, and know that I can learn.

Powerboats have more room. Most have two engines that will eat a gallon of fuel in about 2 miles. Single engine trawlers will get 7 ish MPG. Of course if you just want to live in a marina then it's not to big of a deal.

Sailboats are like trawlers but with rigging, rope all over the place, etc. I use to sail more but find I motor more as I get older. My little 34' gets about 12MPG. which is really good. Space is tiny but I've enjoyed it for 11 years now.

You don't have to know how to sail to buy a sail boat, You can learn as you go or take a few lessons. It's generally something one does not learn from a book.

Also if you want to liveaboard. Be advised that some locations have a minimum length boat for liveaboard. in Northern California where I'm at it's 30 to 35 feet depending on marina. East coast is not as picky but is oddly spendier then a good part of the SF BAY area.