owning your own slip scam or not

[CaptTom]

Another possibility (although I doubt this is the OP's situation) is that one can buy a "membership" in a club which owns the marina. Each membership entitles the member to exclusive use of one slip.

That's how mine is set up, and it's a great arrangement. No profit siphoned off by some larger entity owner. No separate property taxes or insurance on each slip. Members are part owners, and have a real say in the management of the facility.

As for electricity charges, probably every state is different. I've been told that we're not allowed to charge a premium above what the power company charges us, otherwise we'd be viewed as a power retailer ourselves, which would bring in all kinds of legal requirements. So members are billed for exactly what they use. Honestly, reading the meters quarterly and adding the fee to the members' accounts isn't that time-consuming. It's part of the staff's routine duties.

[jmschmidt]

These deals are only a good as the people you are dealing with. You be the judge.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Captain Puget

You CAN buy a slip, usually a condo association type thing. The association owns all docks, etc. you own a hole in the water, including to a certain depth, width and length and air draft.
As others have said, look at your contract to see your situation.

The good news, if you actually own the slip, it appreciates! Something boats don’t do 😉 be careful about the reserve being accumulated for replacement of docks ... if inadequate you are liable for the “special assessment “. Like all condo associations, rules and budgets are very important.

Yeah Right! When I first put my boat in Oriental NC Catamaran slips were selling in the 70s and 80s depending on whether you were in town or in a more remote marina. Two or three years ago someone was auctioning off three cat slips in one of the marinas in town where they once sold in the upper 80s (2005-2006). The high bid was $30K for all three. The seller offered them for $15K each and the bidder turned him down. If the definition of Market value is what someone is willing to pay and at a price someone is willing to sell then the market value of these slips was something between $10K and 15K. That's some real appreciation from the nearly $90k original purchase price.



As far as the OP is concerned slips in NC are typically sold with a deed, just like any other real property. There was a rather infamous incident in New Bern a few years ago where a Marina associated with a hotel on the Trent river between the railroad bridge and the highway 55 bridge was selling marina slips that they didn't own. There were many lawsuits about it as the marina actually belonged to the city and the hotel had just been under contract to manage it for about 25 or 30 years. Everything was still tied up in court when I left the area and I don't know what the final outcome was. Perhaps this certificate of ownership was what they finally came up with to settle the suits. The area between these two bridges also has a weird legal status. In Early 2006 the US congress declared that the water between the two bridges was non-navigable waters for the purpose of the law. The New Bern City fathers apparently managed to get this done so that they could annex the bottom and tax the marina owners.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Yeah Right! When I first put my boat in Oriental NC Catamaran slips were selling in the 70s and 80s depending on whether you were in town or in a more remote marina. Two or three years ago someone was auctioning off three cat slips in one of the marinas in town where they once sold in the upper 80s (2005-2006). The high bid was $30K for all three. The seller offered them for $15K each and the bidder turned him down. If the definition of Market value is what someone is willing to pay and at a price someone is willing to sell then the market value of these slips was something between $10K and 15K. That's some real appreciation from the nearly $90k original purchase price

We found similar situations around Asia where some developer builds a marina and sells berths, usually for a high price because of all the amenities. The problem there has been that the developer invariably builds a "Yacht Club" building with hotel rooms and a fancy restaurant.

Generally it has been that the hotel and restaurant loses money and while the marina has a postive cash flow it can't cover the losses of the hotel and restaurant. The places run down, the developer tries to get higher fees from the marina berth owners (for "maintenance"). The whole place becomes a white elephant. The berth owners can't sell because nobody wants to buy the berths anymore.

Seems to happen over and over.

[pdjb]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Yeah Right! When I first put my boat in Oriental NC Catamaran slips were selling in the 70s and 80s depending on whether you were in town or in a more remote marina. Two or three years ago someone was auctioning off three cat slips in one of the marinas in town where they once sold in the upper 80s (2005-2006). The high bid was $30K for all three. The seller offered them for $15K each and the bidder turned him down. If the definition of Market value is what someone is willing to pay and at a price someone is willing to sell then the market value of these slips was something between $10K and 15K. That's some real appreciation from the nearly $90k original purchase price.



As far as the OP is concerned slips in NC are typically sold with a deed, just like any other real property. There was a rather infamous incident in New Bern a few years ago where a Marina associated with a hotel on the Trent river between the railroad bridge and the highway 55 bridge was selling marina slips that they didn't own. There were many lawsuits about it as the marina actually belonged to the city and the hotel had just been under contract to manage it for about 25 or 30 years. Everything was still tied up in court when I left the area and I don't know what the final outcome was. Perhaps this certificate of ownership was what they finally came up with to settle the suits. The area between these two bridges also has a weird legal status. In Early 2006 the US congress declared that the water between the two bridges was non-navigable waters for the purpose of the law. The New Bern City fathers apparently managed to get this done so that they could annex the bottom and tax the marina owners.

this is the story, the marina was bought by an attorney for an CCL out of California, they sell the slips as investment property, and then rent. Them out .the investors get an check from the LLC out of California. No taxes on paid on investors free cash. More to the story. I did not a get an contract , only an certificate saying that I have rights to the slip and I can,t sell only thur the manager of the hoa. But their is no hoa board, so how does that work out? So if any lawyer is out .there, give me some advice on this matter, a lot more is going on here?

[Cheechako]

If you want title to some water, I'll print you one. How much would you like?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by pdjb

this is the story, the marina was bought by an attorney for an CCL out of California, they sell the slips as investment property, and then rent. Them out .the investors get an check from the LLC out of California. No taxes on paid on investors free cash. More to the story. I did not a get an contract , only an certificate saying that I have rights to the slip and I can,t sell only thur the manager of the hoa. But their is no hoa board, so how does that work out? So if any lawyer is out .there, give me some advice on this matter, a lot more is going on here?

Maybe contact the state attorney general in NC and see if they have complaints or anything on the group you bought from at all. Are they registered in the state? Licensed?etc. Here in WA the AG responds real fast. Not sure about NC.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by pdjb

this is the story, the marina was bought by an attorney for an CCL out of California, they sell the slips as investment property, and then rent. Them out .the investors get an check from the LLC out of California. No taxes on paid on investors free cash. More to the story. I did not a get an contract , only an certificate saying that I have rights to the slip and I can,t sell only thur the manager of the hoa. But their is no hoa board, so how does that work out? So if any lawyer is out .there, give me some advice on this matter, a lot more is going on here?

I thought it was confusing when the city realized they owned the marina and that the hotel had not been giving them any of the revenue for all those years they were managing it. Then the hotel started selling off slips they did not own to unsuspecting customers. Now someone has actually managed to "not sell" you a slip that is owned by someone else all the while sending the money to California and managed by a non-existant HOA? . It sounds to me like the California investors must have a Nigerian prince involved somehow. Time to Lawyer up I would think.

[Jack C]

Let me guess NBGM? I would not call it a scam. It's amazing marketing, but I don't think its a good investment, at least not for me. Why own a slip? you have assumed liability for the infrastructure, risk of loss from hurricanes and you are tied to their regulations which they can change as they are the majority. You also have ongoing fees.
The only upside is that you have a place for your boat in downtown New Bern which may be important to you if its difficult to find slip rental. Slip fees, at least 2 years ago were low and if you don't like the marina or neighbors you can move. Risk high reward low is how I see it.
If you can sell without heavy losses I would. Maybe the marina sales folks can help you. They are very good at selling.

[markpierce]

I pay rent for a berth owned by a city, yet I'm also assessed property tax on same. It wasn't like this initially, but the government changed the rules.

[mvmojo]

Not sure I understand your exact concern... Are you unhappy with your situation and want to sell your slip? Or, are you having buyers remorse and worried that you made a poor decision and just want some assurance that it will be OK (or not)? Or, are you just concerned about the 1.5% electricity mark-up and/or lack of an HOA board? Or, do you just want to better understand what you bought and what your options are going forward? Clarifying your issues will help in getting advice.

There are several law firms in New Bern that include HOA's in their areas of practice. Google "HOA Attorney New Bern NC" and choose one. Call their office and ask for a consultation. Chances are they will already be familiar with your situation and can advise you as to your options.

[Austin351]

Basically, what you own is the right to put your boat there, that’s it.

[Jack C]

Originally Posted by Austin351

Basically, what you own is the right to put your boat there, that’s it.

You also "own" lots of liabilities. If you don't pay your share you will no longer "own the right to put your boat there".

Funny thing is we think that we own assets but really they own you.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by pdjb

I bought a slip or sort I did, I got a certicate instead of deed, is this legal or not....I am in north carolina, new bern. also they said they have an HOA but don"t.I have alot of question about this marina that I live in, I pay hoa fee plus elecity, but they add about 1.5% to the bill, but the meter reading is correct when I do the math...but they add this because they have to pay the bill.but they are tied to the hotel.,but really they are giving the hotel the money fee, is this legal or not, need a help with this, a lot more is going on,,think they are scimming out money?

I've not read all the responses, but I'm both an attorney and long-time North Carolina boat slip owner just down the road from you in Oriental and I will give you a few thoughts.

1) If you own the slip, you should have a deed, not any type of certificate. As someone else said you don't own the dock, just a space or hole in the water.

2) There isn't much law directly on point but several years ago the North Carolina Court of Appeals had some language in an opinion about a contract dispute involving the transfer of property which included a few boat slips. The seller was to use his "best efforts" to obtain authorization to add a couple of additional slips as part of the purchase price. He didn't obtain the authorization but the court said he did use his "best efforts" so the seller had earned the full purchase price. Many attorneys cite this case as an "indication" the courts recognize a person can own that space or hole in the water, but again to my knowledge no N.C. court has ruled directly on the issue. I have not researched this in several years, it may have changed by now.

3) I bought a slip believing that North Carolina does (or will) recognize the right to own a boat slip if the issue is ever squarely presented.

4) Again, if you own it there should be a DEED!

[cfk0jmz]

In the community where I live, the marina is owned by the HOA and they sell "Use Certificates". The certificate gives its owner exclusive rights to use the slip, but does not convey ownership. The marina is a mix of submerged lease land and fee simple land. The size of boats that are allowed are governed by the submerged land lease agreement. Water is included in the maintenance fee and electric is billed separately. The certificate may be sold to another interested resident of the community when no longer wanted. Prices are set by the holder of the certificate and agreement with a buyer. The slip may not be rented to anyone, even another resident. IF you sell your home and move out of the community and still own the certificate you must pay the maintenance fee or the slip ownership will revert to the HOA.

The main things you want to know about your situation: 1) Who is responsible for maintenance of the pier and pilings in your slip; 2) who sets the maintenance fees for the dock; 3) How are you allowed to use the slip - rent, what size vessel, etc.; 4) what insurance requirements exist for your vessel; 5) what changes are you allowed to make to the slip and how do you get permission - think tide slides, extra pilings, lifts, etc.; 6) How do you end you use or sell the certificate; 7) must you pay maintenance fees after you permanently leave the slip and have not sold the certificate; 8) is refueling allowed at your pier; 9) are there restricted hours of use; 10) are you allowed to stay on your vessel overnight and if so, for how long; 11) are you allowed to sub-lease or rent the slip and if so, what are the requirements, process and permissions required to do so; 13) are there restrictions on the working and/or cosmetic conditions of the vessel when in the slip; 14) are you allowed to have maintenance performed on the vessel when it is in the slip.

There may be more, but I don't want to belabor the point. If you are happy with your use of the slip, the cost, the way the marina is managed and your access to the vessel, you shouldn't worry about tiny details that may not cost you anything significant or impede your intended use of the slip. Just enjoy having it.

Happy boating