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Old 11-11-2020, 10:27   #61
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

I was a slip owner in Florida. I had a deed on the land below the boat between the fingers (70' x 20'). There were several layers of ownership between entities beginning with the resort you had to enter to get to the boat. That required a one time only transponder card fee, but an annual fee from a HOA which covered security and grounds keeping on the surrounding properties that you had to drive through. Then there was a condo fee paid quarterly to cover maintenance and security to of the marina docks and a parcel of land from the parking lot in front of the boat and its grounds keeping, pump out, roughly $850 per quarter. And then if you had a slip, like me, that had a covenant clause, you were to pay a social membership to the resort/club costing $3,200 per year which gave you privileges to 7 restaurants on the resort site plus reduced golf and tennis fees. ($40 per round off season and $75 per round in season).


So, I found that it was not the paradise I thought it would be. Too many layers of authority to begin with, HOA, condo association, security, club assessments, staff and management committees. When you get into such things where a group makes decisions with your money you find they feel the need spend it all. I sold it after three years of looking over my shoulder to make sure I wasn't pissing someone off or breaking some petty rule like not parking evenly between the lines in my parking space.


There was also a murder clause that I didn't originally pick up on regarding sub leasing the slip in your absence like a trip or haul out. They paid you 33% of the money for the transient, and kept 66% for management and insurance. You were required to pay the county for a business license $35 annually to receive your share.



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Old 30-11-2020, 13:27   #62
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

I've been following this thread for awhile and I must say it has been very entertaining! Perhaps I can clarify some things as I also own a slip at the marina in question. The marina and hotel are separate entities. The marina is owned by an investment group, Marina Ventures 223, which is located in California. The group purchased the marina a number of years ago from the bank which had taken possession of it. Since that time, slips have been sold to individual boaters. Ownership is conveyed by a certificate. Essentially rights to the water between the finger piers. There is indeed a contract that each owner signs and the closing is done by an attorney, although from my understanding this is not required as it is not a real estate transaction. Any questions regarding the sale should be directed to either the slip broker, attorney handling the closing, or an outside attorney hired by the buyer if he feels the other options are not satisfactory.

In regards to the HOA. There are a written set of covenants provided at the time of closing. Once 60% of the slips are sold, approximately 134 slips, the HOA will elect a president. The president of the HOA will then have a vote in the operation of the marina. Once 90% of the slips have been sold, the HOA will elect VP, and Treasurer. The HOA fees currently being paid are being placed in a fund.

I have owned my slip for several years. I have never been charged an assessment for dock repairs. The marina recently replaced and upgraded the wave attenuation wall after Florence. There was no charge to slip owners even though the marina footed the bill for those upgrades.

Each slip owner is given the option of participating in the rental management program. The marina takes either 15 or 20% of the rent, cant remember which, and slip owner gets the rest. I cannot rent my slip out myself. To me this makes sense. The marina can ensure that tenants are insured and that they pay on time. That's a hassle I would not want to deal with.

Electricity. Really? Do you seriously think they're skimming off the top?

Bottom line is, if you don't like the marina, simply leave. I'm certain both you as well as your neighbors would be much happier.
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Old 30-11-2020, 23:43   #63
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

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Originally Posted by CarverCapt View Post
I've been following this thread for awhile and I must say it has been very entertaining! Perhaps I can clarify some things as I also own a slip at the marina in question. The marina and hotel are separate entities. The marina is owned by an investment group, Marina Ventures 223, which is located in California. The group purchased the marina a number of years ago from the bank which had taken possession of it. Since that time, slips have been sold to individual boaters. Ownership is conveyed by a certificate. Essentially rights to the water between the finger piers. There is indeed a contract that each owner signs and the closing is done by an attorney, although from my understanding this is not required as it is not a real estate transaction. Any questions regarding the sale should be directed to either the slip broker, attorney handling the closing, or an outside attorney hired by the buyer if he feels the other options are not satisfactory.

In regards to the HOA. There are a written set of covenants provided at the time of closing. Once 60% of the slips are sold, approximately 134 slips, the HOA will elect a president. The president of the HOA will then have a vote in the operation of the marina. Once 90% of the slips have been sold, the HOA will elect VP, and Treasurer. The HOA fees currently being paid are being placed in a fund.

I have owned my slip for several years. I have never been charged an assessment for dock repairs. The marina recently replaced and upgraded the wave attenuation wall after Florence. There was no charge to slip owners even though the marina footed the bill for those upgrades.

Each slip owner is given the option of participating in the rental management program. The marina takes either 15 or 20% of the rent, cant remember which, and slip owner gets the rest. I cannot rent my slip out myself. To me this makes sense. The marina can ensure that tenants are insured and that they pay on time. That's a hassle I would not want to deal with.

Electricity. Really? Do you seriously think they're skimming off the top?

Bottom line is, if you don't like the marina, simply leave. I'm certain both you as well as your neighbors would be much happier.
Thank you for your insights on this particular arrangement. It seems to be a fairly reasonable set up based upon your input. I especially agree with your last statement about leaving if you don't like it.

My only question on what you said is about the electricity. While it seems unlikely that they would skim off the top in your location, I was in a marina where across the Hudson River from NYC where the marina was doubling the rate from the local utility. A number of the boaters were complaining about this and supposedly it was not allowed per NJ law. I myself didn't care since my meter was broker and they never fixed in over ten years!

I don't think the skimming happens a lot but I am sure someone somewhere is doing it.

Thank you again for your insight. It was very informative and demonstrates yet again that one must read the agreement one signs.
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Old 01-12-2020, 00:25   #64
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarverCapt View Post
I've been following this thread for awhile and I must say it has been very entertaining! Perhaps I can clarify some things as I also own a slip at the marina in question. The marina and hotel are separate entities. The marina is owned by an investment group, Marina Ventures 223, which is located in California. The group purchased the marina a number of years ago from the bank which had taken possession of it. Since that time, slips have been sold to individual boaters. Ownership is conveyed by a certificate. Essentially rights to the water between the finger piers. There is indeed a contract that each owner signs and the closing is done by an attorney, although from my understanding this is not required as it is not a real estate transaction. Any questions regarding the sale should be directed to either the slip broker, attorney handling the closing, or an outside attorney hired by the buyer if he feels the other options are not satisfactory.

In regards to the HOA. There are a written set of covenants provided at the time of closing. Once 60% of the slips are sold, approximately 134 slips, the HOA will elect a president. The president of the HOA will then have a vote in the operation of the marina. Once 90% of the slips have been sold, the HOA will elect VP, and Treasurer. The HOA fees currently being paid are being placed in a fund.

I have owned my slip for several years. I have never been charged an assessment for dock repairs. The marina recently replaced and upgraded the wave attenuation wall after Florence. There was no charge to slip owners even though the marina footed the bill for those upgrades.

Each slip owner is given the option of participating in the rental management program. The marina takes either 15 or 20% of the rent, cant remember which, and slip owner gets the rest. I cannot rent my slip out myself. To me this makes sense. The marina can ensure that tenants are insured and that they pay on time. That's a hassle I would not want to deal with.

Electricity. Really? Do you seriously think they're skimming off the top?

Bottom line is, if you don't like the marina, simply leave. I'm certain both you as well as your neighbors would be much happier.
LET TALK ABOUT THE ELECTRICITY,
DO YOU GET THE BILL ON LINE , DO THEY PUT THE METER READING ON THE BILL,OR JUST A NUMBER, LIKE 125, THAN AMOUNT SAY 35.OO OK.
FOR ME I REQUESTED THE READING EVERY MONTH. WHEN I DID THE MATH, THE AMOUNT WAS LOWER THAN WHAT THEY HAD ON THE BILL. SO I ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION.? HOW DO YOU GET YOUR FIGURE, THE BIG GUY SAID, THE ENGINEER FROM THE CITY GAVE US A FORMULA,
SHOW ME, I CAN`T, . I WENT DOWN TO THE ELECTRICITY COMPANY, SHOWED THEM THE BILL AND THEY HAD NO IDEA HOW THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT NUMBER, WENT TO THE ENGINEER DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY, GUESS WHAT? NOT A CLUE. ANY QUESTIONS. THE WAY THEY BILL THE OWNERS AND TENANTS, I COULD STEAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOBODY WATCHING THEM, THEIR IS NO HOA BOARD MEMBERS MEETINGS, BECAUSE THEY COULD VOTE THEM OUT AND RUN THE MARINA LIKE IT SHOULD BE RUN, ANY QUESTION NOW.?
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:44   #65
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

[QUOTE=pdjb;3286156]LET TALK ABOUT THE ELECTRICITY,
DO YOU GET THE BILL ON LINE , DO THEY PUT THE METER READING ON THE BILL,OR JUST A NUMBER, LIKE 125, THAN AMOUNT SAY 35.OO OK.
FOR ME I REQUESTED THE READING EVERY MONTH. WHEN I DID THE MATH, THE AMOUNT WAS LOWER THAN WHAT THEY HAD ON THE BILL. SO I ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION.? HOW DO YOU GET YOUR FIGURE, THE BIG GUY SAID, THE ENGINEER FROM THE CITY GAVE US A FORMULA,
SHOW ME, I CAN`T, . I WENT DOWN TO THE ELECTRICITY COMPANY, SHOWED THEM THE BILL AND THEY HAD NO IDEA HOW THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT NUMBER, WENT TO THE ENGINEER DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY, GUESS WHAT? NOT A CLUE. ANY QUESTIONS. THE WAY THEY BILL THE OWNERS AND TENANTS, I COULD STEAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOBODY WATCHING THEM, THEIR IS NO HOA BOARD MEMBERS MEETINGS, BECAUSE THEY COULD VOTE THEM OUT AND RUN THE MARINA LIKE IT SHOULD BE RUN, ANY QUESTION NOW.?[/QUOT

It sounds like you failed to read the purchase agreement, which unfortunately is buyer beware.
So couple suggestions that you can argue with facts. Electricity use- If your agreement does not spell out the method of dividing the use charge- then I would suggest getting an electric meter and installing it in your shoreline. This would give you an accurate running total on your consumption, thereby if overcharging then this is correctable.
As far as charge price per Kw, that is simply an added delivery fee when broken down. I am not sure why you expect the costs to be the same as landside with no surcharge- the cost of dock wiring etc is double. This is not illegal anywhere- most marinas include electric in the slip cost or pass it on as a flat monthly fee, often based on the anticipated cost of an appropriate sized generator.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:22   #66
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It is a scam in many marinas in Europe.. if you are away from your slip the marina can rent it out and you will receive no recompense.. all monies go to the marina.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:40   #67
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

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It is a scam in many marinas in Europe.. if you are away from your slip the marina can rent it out and you will receive no recompense.. all monies go to the marina.


Bit of a generalised comment. My marina ( and Iím just an annual renter ) will compensate me as a percentage of slip income while Iím away for periods
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Old 01-12-2020, 18:39   #68
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Bit of a generalised comment. My marina ( and Iím just an annual renter ) will compensate me as a percentage of slip income while Iím away for periods
Interesting.. How do you know when it's being used while your away..
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Old 01-12-2020, 19:49   #69
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
What you describe, including the very small surcharge on electrical power, does exist -- as far we can tell from how you've described it. But the only way to know for sure whether you have acquired actual legal rights or not is to ask a lawyer, which you should have done before paying money. If you got the slip as part of buying a house then the title opinion might cover the slip as well -- you would need to read the documents.



You have not, in all probability, acquired any kind of real estate, but rather what is called a license, which if correctly done is somewhat similar to real estate, but as others have said, may be conditioned on following the rules, failing which, as is often the case, you might even lose your rights.
Hi Dockhead.
Not all states are the same. If a subdivision is purchased, and land is included, some states, in the Pacific Northwest, will allow a land purchase. I personally purchased the land under the water, next to the dock. I went through a title company, payed taxes assessed by the County Assessors office, and received a deeded title to the surveyed land as written. The slip land is going for between $145k and $160k depending on slip size. I also pay a HOA fee, although very small, I also Don't pay a marina rental fee and the property owners all share in the maintenance as appropriately needed. Other states have claimed the land as theirs through some imminent domain clause and through whatever they got away with years ago, so I don't think states like California allow marina land purchase presently, unless private land bought years ago allows the current owner to do so now. When I read the confusing discussion of many of the forums out there, it seems like discussions of legal documentation is hard to figure out, especially when HOA's try to collect 'anything', so that board members have a budget to spend money as they vote upon. If there is no official HOA with state or county charters, I would question the marina organization and go with them or leave. Questioning them may have you point out problems, and the marina could have legal consequences because of you.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:27   #70
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarverCapt View Post
I've been following this thread for awhile and I must say it has been very entertaining! Perhaps I can clarify some things as I also own a slip at the marina in question. The marina and hotel are separate entities. The marina is owned by an investment group, Marina Ventures 223, which is located in California. The group purchased the marina a number of years ago from the bank which had taken possession of it. Since that time, slips have been sold to individual boaters. Ownership is conveyed by a certificate. Essentially rights to the water between the finger piers. There is indeed a contract that each owner signs and the closing is done by an attorney, although from my understanding this is not required as it is not a real estate transaction. Any questions regarding the sale should be directed to either the slip broker, attorney handling the closing, or an outside attorney hired by the buyer if he feels the other options are not satisfactory.

In regards to the HOA. There are a written set of covenants provided at the time of closing. Once 60% of the slips are sold, approximately 134 slips, the HOA will elect a president. The president of the HOA will then have a vote in the operation of the marina. Once 90% of the slips have been sold, the HOA will elect VP, and Treasurer. The HOA fees currently being paid are being placed in a fund.

I have owned my slip for several years. I have never been charged an assessment for dock repairs. The marina recently replaced and upgraded the wave attenuation wall after Florence. There was no charge to slip owners even though the marina footed the bill for those upgrades.

Each slip owner is given the option of participating in the rental management program. The marina takes either 15 or 20% of the rent, cant remember which, and slip owner gets the rest. I cannot rent my slip out myself. To me this makes sense. The marina can ensure that tenants are insured and that they pay on time. That's a hassle I would not want to deal with.

Electricity. Really? Do you seriously think they're skimming off the top?

Bottom line is, if you don't like the marina, simply leave. I'm certain both you as well as your neighbors would be much happier.
The hoa book doesn`t say anything about how many slip have to sell to begin a board for hoa, that is not anywhere in the bylaws or the convents , show me where that is?
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Old 02-12-2020, 13:28   #71
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Re: owning your own slip scam or not

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The hoa book doesn`t say anything about how many slip have to sell to begin a board for hoa, that is not anywhere in the bylaws or the convents , show me where that is?
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