Composting toilet: rules, regulations, and "real life" use etc.?

[rsn48]

Originally Posted by newhaul

actually your information is incorrect. You separate the urine from the solids . And composting does happen and you are correct it can take up to a year .
On a boat you don't have ten gallons of urine stored where do you get your numbers and information?

Mike do you think I need to post the humanure book again to dispel these myths?

Composting begins in the head, but if you dump the stuff once a month, that's 1/12th of the composting required.

Ten gallons of urine, is partly me added to what some one said here about using a large container to put the urine in, something I would do as well, works for shorter trips but not long ones. I just used ten gallons to make the math simple but in actual fact I had a 15 gallon tank I used with my RV, that I could dump my grey water into and go dump. If that container didn't have wheels I wouldn't have taken it anywhere. RV users have been using containers for decades to remove grey water and on occasion black water. I will be using a 5 gallon container to dump the pee into from my Airhead; I can then take this to shore at my home and dump or an RV dump station. Again not a solution for the long term boat resident but workable for many like me who only cruise the "Inside Passage" in BC.

Thought I would edit this in, images of RV portable grey and black tank portable storage units: https://www.google.ca/search?q=porta...w=1920&bih=938

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by rsn48

Composting begins in the head

Wow, that's deep! mind blown. . .
https://goo.gl/images/kScKPy

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rsn48

Composting begins in the head, but if you dump the stuff once a month, that's 1/12th of the composting required.

Ten gallons of urine, is partly me added to what some one said here about using a large container to put the urine in, something I would do as well, works for shorter trips but not long ones. I just used ten gallons to make the math simple but in actual fact I had a 15 gallon tank I used with my RV, that I could dump my grey water into and go dump. If that container didn't have wheels I wouldn't have taken it anywhere. RV users have been using containers for decades to remove grey water and on occasion black water. I will be using a 5 gallon container to dump the pee into from my Airhead; I can then take this to shore at my home and dump or an RV dump station. Again not a solution for the long term boat resident but workable for many like me who only cruise the "Inside Passage" in BC.

Thought I would edit this in, images of RV portable grey and black tank portable storage units: https://www.google.ca/search?q=porta...w=1920&bih=938

I have one of those on a 35 gallon size that was for grey water in my 40' fifthwheel.
Now days I have 1 one gallon jug and a 2.5 gallon tank from an old porta pottie which together lasts me about 2 weeks between dumpings . I empty my solids about every 3 months . ( I use shore facilities when available for my daily deposits) it lengthens my solids emptying time . ( I also am solo.)

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rsn48

Composting begins in the head, but if you dump the stuff once a month, that's 1/12th of the composting required.

Ten gallons of urine, is partly me added to what some one said here about using a large container to put the urine in, something I would do as well, works for shorter trips but not long ones. I just used ten gallons to make the math simple but in actual fact I had a 15 gallon tank I used with my RV, that I could dump my grey water into and go dump. If that container didn't have wheels I wouldn't have taken it anywhere. RV users have been using containers for decades to remove grey water and on occasion black water. I will be using a 5 gallon container to dump the pee into from my Airhead; I can then take this to shore at my home and dump or an RV dump station. Again not a solution for the long term boat resident but workable for many like me who only cruise the "Inside Passage" in BC.

Thought I would edit this in, images of RV portable grey and black tank portable storage units: https://www.google.ca/search?q=porta...w=1920&bih=938

as an aside you do realise that Victoria BC still discharges raw sewage into the straight of Juan De fuca .

[rsn48]

Here's a pdf of Vancouver and areas sewage treatment, worse than you might think:

http://www.bucksuzuki.org/images/upl...den_Killer.pdf

I talked about waste taking a year to decompose because if you read through the book length posts in this thread it is clear that many don't know this fact. It was they I was reacting to, not the knowledgeable.

I believe I left two videos here, further back in this thread done by "Gone with the Wynn's" about C toilets. I might as well link the third one for newbies reading through this thread, if they have lasted this long... lol. The Wynn's were blogging about living full time in their motor home and made a composting series for educational purposes. Currently they have moved to either a catamaran or trimaran and have just finished crossing the Pacific, of which they are now blogging about. If you watch this video, you will understand why I'm curious if they installed a composting toilet in their boat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=FS8BuEXUt-g

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by smj

Maybe I should get my wife to give lessons[emoji38]

That means you have to visit!!!
Well we ditched the c head, have an airhead in one and a natures head in the other, there's no pumpout here in a harbor with almost zero flow and probably 100+ liveaboards 🤤

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

That means you have to visit!!!
Well we ditched the c head, have an airhead in one and a natures head in the other, there's no pumpout here in a harbor with almost zero flow and probably 100+ liveaboards 🤤

You’ve got and had all three!! For those of us still considering the purchase of one of these, or to DIY, can you provide a basic comparison? Thanks!

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

That means you have to visit!!!
Well we ditched the c head, have an airhead in one and a natures head in the other, there's no pumpout here in a harbor with almost zero flow and probably 100+ liveaboards 🤤

I thought you got rid of all your composters?
Would love to be where you are now. Our Searunner is hauled out close to New Bern so we are dealing with hurricane Florence. And we are living on our TRT 1200 in Galveston with a tropical system brewing in the Gulf. Must be nice to be out of the hurricane zone!

[Simply Sailing]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I'm waiting for someone to challenge all of her false information that is in that letter.

Well, then, let me accommodate you.

I spoke with the GM of Air Head Composting Toilets and got this response:

“As a response to some misinformation that has been circulating recently: in regard to legality, the Air Head Composting Toilet is a USCG approved MSD type III in compliance with 33 CFR 159.12a. Evidence of the product's legality is in the regulations and supported by a letter by P.A. Richardson, Captian US Coast Guard dated April 20, 1999. We’ll be glad to share it with anyone who is interested.
Secondly, the Air Head is indeed designed for uninterrupted use. We have 18 years of proof from full-time liveaboards that it can be used uninterrupted for a month. If you have any concerns or questions or would like more information, please contact us through the website: www.airheadtoilet.com.”

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Simply Sailing

Well, then, let me accommodate you.

I spoke with the GM of Air Head Composting Toilets and got this response:

“As a response to some misinformation that has been circulating recently: in regard to legality, the Air Head Composting Toilet is a USCG approved MSD type III in compliance with 33 CFR 159.12a. Evidence of the product's legality is in the regulations and supported by a letter by P.A. Richardson, Captian US Coast Guard dated April 20, 1999. We’ll be glad to share it with anyone who is interested.
Secondly, the Air Head is indeed designed for uninterrupted use. We have 18 years of proof from full-time liveaboards that it can be used uninterrupted for a month. If you have any concerns or questions or would like more information, please contact us through the website: www.airheadtoilet.com.”

thank you I know all this data I have been thru it here in Washington what I would like to see is that municipality having to change their misguided policies.

Would love to have a copy of that letter from the USCG Rnewby1@ hotmail.com
Just to have to head off any issues before they actually become issues on my own vessel.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by KadeyKrogen38

I have a CHead on mine and are very satisfied. Absolutely no smell, no trips to pump out again no smell.

The C Head utilizes two containers that lift out. Easy to place trash bag over the composting container and just dump. The urine tank is small and does require regular emptying but it set up with a sanitary handle and a pouring spout for emptying into larger tank or whatever. Compost bag goes into dumpster at marina or into a 5 gal bucket with lid

CHead states that a load of compost material should be good for two adults for one month.

Just wondering, but if you asked the marina or waste disposal company whether it would be ok to dump 3 weeks worth of dessicated human feces in their dumpster, would they say yes? I don't know, but my guess is that the answer would be a very emphatic NO. And if the compost gets dumped over the side, which I have to think happens, how is that an improvement over flushing the johnnies over the side after each use?

P.s. ok, I am correcting myself. From googling the topic, whether you can dump your composting toilet contents into a dumpster is up to local regulations. I guess that makes sense, given disposable diapers, doggie poo bags going into the same recepticals. Learning this, I will no longer rummage through dumpsters looking for lunch.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Just wondering, but if you asked the marina or waste disposal company whether it would be ok to dump 3 weeks worth of dessicated human feces in their dumpster, would they say yes? I don't know, but my guess is that the answer would be a very emphatic NO. And if the compost gets dumped over the side, which I have to think happens, how is that an improvement over flushing the johnnies over the side after each use?

The only real difference is that you’re not flushing your johnnies in enclosed anchorages and marinas. It’s just like any Type III MSD (holding tank), except there are many advantages to one of these composting heads over standard systems:

Space saving: no need for a holding a tank, and all the related hoses.
Simplicity: very little can go wrong, so no more emergency, and very icky, repairs.
Not constrained by holding tank size: I can easily carry a year’s supply of coir (compressed coconut husk). And can carry the end product in a bag if need be.
Safety: No need for thru-hulls, so fewer holes in the boat.
Cost: Never pay for another pump out.

I don’t think a CH is necessarily more environmentally friendly. It depend on how the final product is disposed of. I do believe mixing urine with feces is creates a far nastier product to deal with compared to keeping them separate. The downside of these heads is you have to be a bit more intimate with your outflows. Since most of us rarely even think about our personal effluent (flush & forget), this seems to be a barrier for some.

[hellosailor]

It is always SO impressive when someone cites the USC by chapter and verse.
But let's see what that citation means in plain englishspeak:

"§ 159.12a Certification of certain Type III devices.
(a) The purpose of this section is to provide regulations for certification of certain Type III devices.

(b) Any Type III device is considered certified under this section if:

(1) It is used solely for the storage of sewage and flushwater at ambient air pressure and temperature; and

(2) It is in compliance with § 159.53(c)."

In other words, if you took a big red beer cup, and used it exclusively to store sewage, it would mee that section of code as a Type III MSD. Any bucket, bowl, or chamberpot will do.

Oh, and that second code reference? Turns out to be "be designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage (Type III)".

So as long as your chamberpot or bucket is designed to prevent overboard discharge (it isn't balanced on the rail or equipped with a gravity pump out, etc.) then it is still a legal Type III MSD apparently.

What the nice man at the nice company really should have said is simply "We make a bucket and a lid, and that's always considered sufficient for Type III MSD certification."

A whole lot less glamorous, huh?

Now, someone call him back and ask him exactly which agency thinks that anything can turn sewage into compost in just 30 days--his own specified period of "uninterrupted use"--and also also him which agencies also accept his device as a composting toilet. And then, which agencies allow the material in it to be disposed of by anyone except a sanitary sewage service.

For instance, that "composting" toilet can't be thrown out back, or into a dumpster, in the state of Colorado. (A friend was looking into it, they have no septic field or city plumbing.) Dunno about the rest of the US, but my friend would be required to call the portapotty man, or the septic pumpout man, to have the bucket emptied!

too much smoke, not enough mirrors in that business. There's an honest product with legitimate purposes, but it really is just a dry portapotty.

[john61ct]

That Colorado data point, if true, is definitely exceptional.

It is perfectly legal - as in not forbidden - to dispose of human waste in the nomal solid waste stream, e.g. public or household trash can, dumpsters etc, everywhere I've checked it out.

If course if you **ask** someone they will say no, but 99.99% pure BS.

And the finished output of these units properly used, is far from a big bag of raw poop.

But no one claims it is fully composted, ready to put out on your veggie garden.

Now, I personally would just avoid visiting places that enforced such completely irrational restrictions, rather than try to have them overturned, but that's just me.

See my note above on etiquette / protocol issues to be a good citizen, may help keep such insanity from spreading.

[hellosailor]

john? if true?
Yes. As I mentioned, a friend in Colorado was looking for a way, any way, that they could avoid hiring a portasan for the summer months, on some wooded residential property they have there. Apparently the area can't pass a perc test, can't have a septic field (or their budget won't accomodate it yet) and they are not allowed to build an outhouse.
Like a number of other states, if you just take a fast look on the web Colorado ALLOWS composting toilets. What you may not see listed, is the fine print. A composting toilet, in the eyes of the EPA, discharges clean humus that yes, you can put in your vegetable garden. In fact they have a paper online that shows how you can build one with a long sloping discharge tube, such that it will take the sewage over 90 days before it is pushed out the far end, as clean COMPOSTED material.
The states that allow composting toilets vary in how they define those, but if it is a "bucket" they also conveniently often don't mention how that bucket must be treated after it has filled.
You can't dump an RV's blackwater tank into the street sewers either--but you won't find that listed in any state's motor vehicle laws, will you? "If true".
If it was in fact perfectly legal to empty an Airhead or other device into the street trash in ANY state...Gee, wouldn't it be stupid of those companies not to provide a list of the states where that was allowed? Or maybe, it would be embarrassing if they wound up with a list of only a dozen places...Ergh. Ooops.

https://compostingcouncil.org/state-...gulations-map/
Apparently there is a fairly long listing (with lots of notes like permits required, aquifer considerations, etc.) and a map available but be warned, you have to risk running Adobe Flash, the infamous malware delivery system, to load it.

The point being, we shouldn't have to debate or research this. The folks who make the product and sell the product and mis-name the product, are the folks who should have this information at their fingertips. Instead of referencing obscure US Code which says "Yeah, chamberpots are still legal, we call them TypeIII MSDs these days."

And a chamberpot can still be a great thing, those salesmen need to get on the program.