Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

[boatpoker]

As Ontario residents we have left ON and Canada many times for longer the the allowed period to maintain OHIP coverage. You are required to inform Services Ontario if you are leaving for longer .... the way around it ... don't tell them you are gone ... seriously. CBP and Services Ontario don't talk to each other and share no database.

[NaClyDog]

Especially since we won't be going anywhere via the US. lol

[Montanan]

Per your earlier thread post July 8th.

Titled: Ease of finding crew as blue water cruisers?

"My spouse and I are in the process of purchasing a catamaran to become mostly full time live aboard blue water cruisers. I say mostly full time because my spouse will not be on the vessel during any passages longer than 2 or 3 days - hence the need for crew."

Sounds like your spouse will be only on short passages, if she returns to reside in a Canadian province while you remain nomadic and away, you will have established significant residency in the province where she is residing. You will have an in province spouse. Question is which province will she be in and if it is different from whence you previously resided then there are qualification as to being eligible in the new province.

Having a spouse in country also likely avails your factual residency for Federal taxation purposes.

Some provinces require significant physical residency and do not have the "sabbatical" that Ontario does as to continuance of OHIP eligibility. Best check your provinces specific guidance.

Devil is in the details.

Be assured that if you incur significant out of country medical expenses that the provincial healthcare system will inquire into your residency status and likely so will the third party healthcare provider for out of country supplemental coverage which will end up with the lion's share of the medical expenses. The easiest claim to pay is the one that a company denies.

It is oh so easy to determine where you have been and where you have not been and they can ask for proof to validate coverage. Your exposure not theirs.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

As Ontario residents we have left ON and Canada many times for longer the the allowed period to maintain OHIP coverage. You are required to inform Services Ontario if you are leaving for longer .... the way around it ... don't tell them you are gone ... seriously. CBP and Services Ontario don't talk to each other and share no database.

I believe this is true, but there is no technical reason it can't be shared. Canada and the US currently shared data at the federal level. You can get away with it for now, and many do, but unless there are laws enacted to prevent it, I can't see how this will continue.

Besides that, there is some small ethical considerations here. Afteral, the rules are fairly clear, and there is some valid reason behind it. It's a bit like buying or selling on the black market just to avoid paying taxes. It can be done, but it's not right.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I believe this is true, but there is no technical reason it can't be shared. Canada and the US currently shared data at the federal level. You can get away with it for now, and many do, but unless there are laws enacted to prevent it, I can't see how this will continue.

Besides that, there is some small ethical considerations here. Afteral, the rules are fairly clear, and there is some valid reason behind it. It's a bit like buying or selling on the black market just to avoid paying taxes. It can be done, but it's not right.

We will be continuing to pay our taxes to Canada. Tax avoidance is not what this is about.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

We will be continuing to pay our taxes to Canada. Tax avoidance is not what this is about.

It was an analogy, not an accusation. The point is, the rules are fairly clear, if a bit hard to apply in practice. To maintain eligibility for Ontario healthcare coverage you must be physically in the province for approximately five months out of every 12 month rotation. You can get a two-year sabbatical, which can be renewed, but these are limited exceptions.

Canadians travelers have been used to flying under the radar on this whole residency thing for a long time. But as databases become more interoperable, there will come a day when this is no longer as easily possible. Unless we put legal impediments to this, which I kinda doubt.

Although we have yet to cruise outside the country, we do cruise outside our province. We've managed to maintain legal residency, but have accepted that there will come a time when this can't happen. We've decided to live without healthcare insurance in all places except the USA. There we would find 3rd party coverage. But in most other places in the world acute care is quite affordable, so we will pay as we go.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I believe this is true, but there is no technical reason it can't be shared. Canada and the US currently shared data at the federal level. You can get away with it for now, and many do, but unless there are laws enacted to prevent it, I can't see how this will continue.

Besides that, there is some small ethical considerations here. Afteral, the rules are fairly clear, and there is some valid reason behind it. It's a bit like buying or selling on the black market just to avoid paying taxes. It can be done, but it's not right.

FYI:

They will know you coming and going. It will soon become ever harder to game the system as to taxation and as to social benefits.


Entry/Exit initiative - A work in process and integration.

From: Canada Border Services Agency

Backgrounder

The Government of Canada remains committed to a strong, secure, and efficient border with the United States (U.S.), while protecting individual privacy and rights.

Background

The Government of Canada collects biographic entry information on all travellers entering the country, but currently has no reliable way of knowing when and where they leave the country.

Currently, Canada and the U.S. exchange biographic entry information on third-country nationals and permanent residents, so that entry into one country serves as an exit record from the other. Canada also shares with the U.S. biographic entry information on U.S. citizens and nationals. This collection and exchange has proven to be seamless to the traveller. There have been no delays at the border and no impact on traveller experience.

Current situation

Bill C-21, An Act to amend the Customs Act, which provides the CBSA with the authority to collect basic biographic information on all travellers exiting Canada by land and air, received Royal Assent in December 2018.

Once the related regulations and information sharing arrangements are also in place, the CBSA will begin to collect biographic exit information on all travellers. These changes will not impact the movement of legitimate travellers (i.e., no anticipated delays at the border). Canada will know when and where someone enters the country, and when and where they leave the country by land and air.

The Government of Canada will achieve this by working closely with its U.S. counterparts and exchanging biographic entry information on all travellers (including Canadian citizens) at the land border. The CBSA will receive biographic entry information from U.S. Customs and Border Protection shortly after a traveller enters the U.S. The record of entry from the U.S. will serve as a record of exit from Canada. Similarly, Canada will also provide biographic entry information to the U.S. to create a record of exit for the U.S.

The CBSA will also collect biographic exit information on all air travellers, including passengers and crew members, when they leave or are expected to leave Canada. The CBSA will receive exit information directly from air carriers in the form of electronic passenger manifests. The CBSA will not exchange passenger manifest information collected in the air mode with the U.S.

In addition, Bill C-21 consists of new authorities for CBSA officers to ask any person leaving Canada to present themselves to a CBSA officer if they are requested to do so, and answer questions asked by the officer in the performance of their duties. CBSA officers will also be able to examine goods that are to be exported at any time up to the time of exportation.

Benefits of the Entry/Exit initiative

The Entry/Exit initiative aligns Canada with its international partners who have or are in the process of implementing entry-exit systems. The initiative will benefit Canadians by strengthening the efficiency and security of the Canada-U.S. shared border.

It will enable the CBSA and its federal government partners to:

Respond to the outbound movement of known high-risk travellers and their goods prior to their actual departure from Canada by air (i.e., fugitives of justice, registered sex offenders, human/drug smugglers, exporters of illicit goods, etc.);
Address time sensitive situations more effectively, such as responding to Amber Alerts and helping find abducted children or runaways;
Help prevent the illegal export of controlled, regulated or prohibited goods from Canada;
Identify individuals who do not leave Canada at the end of their authorized period of stay (i.e., visa overstays) and provide decision-makers with an accurate picture of an individual’s complete travel history;
Focus immigration enforcement activities on persons still in Canada by eliminating wasted time and resources spent on issuing immigration warrants and conducting investigations on individuals who have already left the country;
Verify whether applicants for permanent residency or citizenship have complied with residency requirements; and
Verify travel dates to determine applicable duty and tax reporting and tax exemptions and continued entitlement to social benefit programs.

Definitions

Biographic information

Biographic information incudes elements such as: first name, middle name(s), last name, date of birth, citizenship or nationality, sex, travel document type, document number, and name of the country that issued the travel document.

Entry information (land mode)

Entry information includes biographic information that Canada and the U.S. currently collect on travellers at ports of entry. In addition, the date and time of entry, as well as the port through which the traveller entered, are exchanged as part of the Entry/Exit initiative.

Exit information

Exit information includes biographic information. In addition, in the air mode the date, time, and location of departure as well as flight information will be collected from air carriers for passengers leaving Canada on outbound international flights. In the land mode, it includes the date and time of exit, as well as the port through which the traveller exited the country.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It was an analogy, not an accusation. The point is, the rules are fairly clear, if a bit hard to apply in practice. To maintain eligibility for Ontario healthcare coverage you must be physically in the province for approximately five months out of every 12 month rotation. You can get a two-year sabbatical, which can be renewed, but these are limited exceptions.

Canadians travelers have been used to flying under the radar on this whole residency thing for a long time. But as databases become more interoperable, there will come a day when this is no longer as easily possible. Unless we put legal impediments to this, which I kinda doubt.

Although we have yet to cruise outside the country, we do cruise outside our province. We've managed to maintain legal residency, but have accepted that there will come a time when this can't happen. We've decided to live without healthcare insurance in all places except the USA. There we would find 3rd party coverage. But in most other places in the world acute care is quite affordable, so we will pay as we go.

Mike, if I recall your residency is Ontario, but your boat is in Newfoundland and because of your non-NFL residency you are prohibited from travelling into that province due to the Covid-19 travel restrictions, so no boating joy for you this season and I know how anxiously you have been awaiting getting back aboard; thus you are now planning to head to Alberta mountains by motorcycle.

You have mentioned that Ontario Healthcare Insurance Program allows for the "sabbatical" it appears that not all provinces provide for such exemption from annual calendar or rolling year residency.

By way of example:

A person must be a B.C. resident to qualify for medical coverage under MSP. A resident is a person who meets all of the following conditions:

must be a citizen of Canada or be lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence;
must make his or her home in B.C.; and
must be physically present in B.C. at least six months in a calendar year, or a shorter prescribed period.*
* Eligible B.C. residents (citizens of Canada or persons who are lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence) who are outside B.C. for vacation purposes only, are allowed a total absence of up to seven months in a calendar year.


Return to Québec after a prolonged absence

If you are returning to live in Québec after having settled abroad or in another Canadian province, you have to re-register for Québec health insurance even though you were registered in the past. To remain eligible for health insurance, you must not be absent from Québec 183 days or more, consecutive or not, in a given calendar year (January 1 to December 31).

You do not have to re-register for health insurance if you are returning to Québec after a temporary absence during which you remained covered.

Seven year Exemption.

Absence of 183 days or more in the same year which does not cause you to lose your eligibility for Quebec health insurance. You are entitled to this once every 7 years. This absence is authorized for holidays or other personal reasons. You must contact us to declare your absence.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Mike, if I recall your residency is Ontario, but your boat is in Newfoundland and because of your non-NFL residency you are prohibited from travelling into that province due to the Covid-19 travel restrictions, so no boating joy for you this season and I know how anxiously you have been awaiting getting back aboard; thus you are now planning to head to Alberta mountains by motorcycle.

You have mentioned that Ontario Healthcare Insurance Program allows for the "sabbatical" it appears that not all provinces provide for such exemption from annual calendar or rolling year residency.

Yup, both are true. Even though my boat is my real home, my technical residency is in Ontario, so we have been barred from entry into Newfoundland. Sucks... but life isn't fair, and things don't always work out for the best. And plan B (motorcycling across Canada) ain't all that bad .

I've only studied Ontario (OHIP) in detail so I can't say for certain, but I believe you are correct. This shines a light on some of the weaknesses of the Canadian healthcare system, in that we don't have a national system. While there is a lot of commonality across all provinces, there are some significant differences.

[AiniA]

Back to the OP, one of his comments was about health insurance for travel outside Canada. We did not have this, except when we were in or passing through the US where you absolutely positively need it because of the way healthcare is done there. A couple of thoughts. Cruising tends to be a very healthy lifestyle. Healthcare in most of the world is not at all expensive and good quality.

We had two things happen, both to me, my wife had nothing. I had a staph infection in my leg that started shortly after we left Easter Island heading west. I did not seek out the doctor in Pitcairn but when we got to Mangareva in French Polynesia I went to the clinic there either every two or three days for almost a month. French doctor diagnosed and treated the problem, mainly with cleaning and new dressings. He said there was some way to charge foreigners but he couldn't remember what it was so not to worry. From there we went to Tahiti to the very modern hospital there. A lovely French doctor and nurse treated me in the ER for more than an hour (mainly digging out infection with sharp tools) - somehow it doesn't hurt as much with attractive ladies with Parisian accents. Hospital charge was $100 and the prescribed meds/dressing another $100. Thing came back, as staph infections apparently do, and went to the private hospital in Fiji and was treated by an Aussie-trained doctor who prescribed a different antibiotic that worked, or the thing just went away in Trumpian fashion. Doctor charge was $6 and prescription was $6. Public hospital would have been free.

The other thing that happened was that I got my hand crushed in Mossel Bay, South Africa. The ambulance took me to the public hospital in town where my treatment would have been free. The doctor there suggested that the private hospital offered fuller care, with specialists and the like so we went there - the ambulance was still there so gave us a ride. I was in the spiffy private hospital for five days, had an operation and physical therapy every day to keep motion in the hand. Total cost was CA$6000. Flew home to Canada and within 36 hours was seeing probably the top hand specialist in Canada. He said the care in SA was first rate.

Anyway, the total cost of healthcare for our five years away was something less than CA$6300 which was much less than buying out-of-country insurance - except in the US.

BTW, I found out that there are not many male nurses in SA, but there are still called, 'Sister'.

[NaClyDog]

Thank you Ainia, that was quite informative.


Our biggest concern was not losing the provincial coverage in order to qualify for the more cost effective travel plans offered by 3rd party providers. Based on your experience, this wouldn't be really necessary... probably.


Someone above also suggested a 3rd party provider that wouldn't require us to keep our provincial coverage. Calling them is on my wife's to-do list.


Visiting the US wouldn't really be a priority. The only caveat being if we needed some work done on the boat after an Atlantic crossing, an authorized reseller is located in Fort Lauderdale (not really a surprise).

[Svsumurun]

Not truly a nomad, but have been out of Canada for 23 years now and in a few countries. So, a few things that I know for sure...
1- other than the USA, don't even worry about health insurance , other than maybe one of the programs some of the other posters listed. When we lived in the Carib, we just paid out of pocket ( but we were young then, hmm but also had young kids then, so maybe not so bright)
2- as others have mentioned, taxes are based on your residence- you won't live in Canada , no reason to even file
3- your bank accounts, CC's , etc are fine - I kept mine for years after I left , and I think my wife actually still has one open as we still get a statement every month.
4- as far as mail , use the Florida service that everyone uses ( do a search - lots of info on them) , that actually makes you a Florida 'resident' for the Canada Revenue Service . You aren't really a resident of the US, so no need to deal with CBP
5- might be a good idea to still file in Canada as a non resident as your SSI will go dormant after a few years ( I guess for your protection I was told) , and you have to re- activate it - not a big deal , just birth certificates , etc needed , but you won't owe anything as a non resident
6- I'm sure a little off topic , but interesting - both the us and Canada count years working in the other country towards the total count for SS, etc .. so in my case , as an example - I will get from both countries when it's time

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Svsumurun

2- as others have mentioned, taxes are based on your residence- you won't live in Canada , no reason to even file

Thanks for the info Svsumurun.


Regarding 2, it is our desire to remain factual residents of Canada. Giving that up would mean lump sum tax payment on our entire RRSPs. It will be much cheaper for us to just pay out the taxes on a measured withdrawal over time.

[Svsumurun]

That makes sense for sure

[Mainstreet]

We purchased a boat in New Orleans back in 2016 and cruised until 2018. We then sold the vessel in the US. We never brought the vessel to Canada. We cruised the Bahamas and the US from Louisiana to South Carolina. I had had a stroke about 15 years earlier and was (still am) on various medications.

During the Hurricane seasons we settled the vessel in a safe Marina and lived on another sailboat on the Great Lakes. Essentially, we shuttled seasonably between the US and Canada.

Both my wife and I had Nexus cards which facilitated things significantly. Due to out of country coverage limitations we had to return to Canada and our home province every 60 days or a period not less than 24 hours. That put a crimp in our itinerary. We typically flew back using low cost carriers to US border airports then rented cars to get back home and back to the US airport on return.

On one leg of our cruise I had an accident on board that was rather nasty with potential internal bleeding. I found my way to a trauma Center where I spent 36 hours in ICU then returned to the boat for further recovery. The cost of that hospital stay was $35,000.00! The third party health I insurance provider payed it without a blink. Absolutely no issues.

The point of this is that we followed all the rules for going international for both our provincial and third party coverage and had absolutely no issues. We tested it against the hold standard of submitting a claim successfully.

These rules may seem onerous but it beats the hell out of going without insurance. I had no expectations of ever claiming on the out of country package but we bought one from a reputable agent we knew well. Glad we did. By the way, if our provincial coverage had lapsed for any reason, the out of country package would have been void because it was a precondition on purchase.