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Old 24-07-2020, 10:33   #46
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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we bought one from a reputable agent we knew well. Glad we did. By the way, if our provincial coverage had lapsed for any reason, the out of country package would have been void because it was a precondition on purchase.

Do you mind me asking which broker you used, and what package you bought? I am relatively young (48) but have a shed load of preexisting conditions.

TIA
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Old 24-07-2020, 10:47   #47
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Give me youíre email and Iíll respond privately.
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Old 24-07-2020, 15:52   #48
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We are very fortunate in Canada on many levels, not the least of which is healthcare. However, when we decided to cut the dock lines and explore the Pacific, we made a conscious decision to assume full responsibility for our decision including realizing that we were on our own. No Vessel insurance ... Lloyds wanted to dictate trading areas, crewing and many other restrictions for a cost of over $30k per year. Our 10 year old did have an accident in San Diego that required hospitalization and setting a broken arm. The bill was $27k USD and no stay in hospital. The cost of sailing. Btw, BC Health paid $743.00 towards the bill. There are lots of things like that. Our suggestion is to live like a local and to temporarily forget about all of our Canadian safety nets. Afterall, it's an adventure. Put your time, energy and money into maintaining your boat and enjoy the lifestyle. It really is a wonderful opportunity and there are many amazing Blue Water Cruisers to meet and all will willingly advise as you sail the world's great highways. Be serious and competent sailors or don't cut the dock lines. Fairwinds!
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Old 24-07-2020, 16:10   #49
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Just a reminder to folks who have not read the entire thread. There are alternatives. We are 69 (ouch!) and 67 and have international health coverage, $2 million aggregate cap for $4,000/year total for both. It EXCLUDES the USA of course.
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Old 24-07-2020, 18:37   #50
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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FYI:
As to Ontarios health insurance program.
Planning on being away for more than seven months
If you plan to be outside Canada for more than seven months in any 12-month period you can keep your OHIP coverage for up to two years if you:

have a valid health card
make Ontario your primary home
will be in Ontario for at least 153 days a year in each of the two years immediately before you leave the country

Before you leave, take the following items to the nearest ServiceOntario centre to make sure your OHIP coverage stays active:
your health card
proof of residency (e.g. mortgage, lease or rental agreement, property tax bill, valid driverís licence)

You may be out of the province for up to 212 days in any 12-month period and still maintain your Ontario health insurance coverage provided that you continue to make Ontario your primary place of residence.

To maintain eligibility for OHIP coverage you must be an eligible resident of Ontario. This means that you must :

have an OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration status; and
be physically present in Ontario for 153 days in any 12-month period; and
be physically present in Ontario for at least 153 days of the first 183 days immediately after establishing residency in the province; and
make your primary place of residence in Ontario.

If you will be out of the province for more than 212 days in any 12-month period, please refer to the Longer Absences from Ontario fact sheet. Linked here: https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-cov...nada#section-0

If your job or studies require you to leave Ontario frequently and you are unable to be present for 153 days in any 12-month period, you may still be eligible for OHIP coverage as a mobile worker or mobile student. To maintain your OHIP coverage, you should:

be able to provide acceptable documents that show that your work requires frequent travel in and out of Ontario or that your full-time academic program in Ontario requires travel outside of Ontario; and
be able to provide acceptable documents to show how you make your primary place of residence in Ontario (refer to Ontario Health Coverage Document List). Reference the document downloadable here Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Identification

New or returning residents to Ontario who qualify as a mobile worker or mobile student are exempt from having to meet the 153-day in the first 183-day physical presence requirement immediately after establishing residency in Ontario.

Every province and territory has residency rules that must be followed in order to remain eligible for government health insurance coverage - stay out of the country too long, and you run the risk of being ineligible and losing your health card privileges.

Losing your provincial coverage can be particularly devastating for snowbirds, as it can have serious implications on two fronts:

When you return to Canada, your provincial plan wonít cover any of your medical expenses, which could result in significant or even devastating medical bills for services we are so used to receiving free of charge, including doctor visits, testing, treatments, procedures and hospital stays.

You can apply for a health card renewal when you return to your province of residence, but the process can be long and tedious and leave you without medical coverage for months while you get your eligibility back and your application works its way through the system.

A lesser known, but equally dangerous consequence for Canadian snowbirds who lose their provincial health insurance coverage is that any travel medical insurance policy you have purchased to cover medical expenses incurred outside Canada wonít cover your claims unless your provincial health care insurance is valid.

Your travel insurance policy will have a term requiring you to be covered by your provinceís health care plan for the full term of your insurance, as insurance companies co-ordinate any claims you make while outside Canada with your province to recoup some of your medical expenses. If your provincial health care coverage lapses, your travel medical insurance policy will become null and void in almost all circumstances.

Be aware that maintaining your provincial health care coverage does not mean you'll be covered for medical expenses outside Canada. Provinces severely limit the types of medical services covered and coverage amounts medical expenses incurred outside Canada, only covering a very small fraction of these costs.

For example, a hospital stay in the U.S. can cost $10,000 or more per day, but Ontario OHIP will only cover a maximum of $400 per day - a measly 4% of your total out of country hospital stay costs!

To ensure you're covered for unexpected medical expenses while travelling, you'll need to purchase snowbird travel medical insurance.


Determining your residency status
Under Canada's tax system, your income tax obligations to Canada are based on your residency status. You need to know your residency status before you can know what your tax responsibilities and filing requirements to Canada are.

An individual's residency status is determined on a case by case basis and the individual's whole situation and all the relevant facts must be considered.

The following steps can help you determine your residency status for income tax purposes and your tax obligations to Canada.

Step 1: Determine if you have residential ties with Canada
The most important thing to consider when determining your residency status in Canada for income tax purposes is whether or not you maintain, or you establish, residential ties with Canada.

Significant residential ties to Canada include:

a home in Canada
a spouse or common-law partner in Canada
dependants in Canada

Secondary residential ties that may be relevant include:

personal property in Canada, such as a car or furniture
social ties in Canada, such as memberships in Canadian recreational or religious organizations
economic ties in Canada, such as Canadian bank accounts or credit cards
a Canadian driver's licence
a Canadian passport
health insurance with a Canadian province or territory
To determine residence status, all of the relevant facts in each case must be considered, including residential ties with Canada and length of time, object, intent, and continuity while living inside and outside Canada.
In other words, itís shitty insurance unless youíre willing to be held prisoner.
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Old 24-07-2020, 20:44   #51
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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In other words, itís shitty insurance unless youíre willing to be held prisoner.
You're not forced to use it. You can always purchase private coverage. You'll pay a lot more, but that is your choice.

Nothing comes for free. Provincial taxes pay for healthcare. Location-based taxes like PST and gas taxes are a significant source, and they require you to be in the province.

I'd much prefer these limitations not be in place either, but unless we find a better way to fund the system, these are the realities.
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Old 24-07-2020, 21:50   #52
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Although we have yet to cruise outside the country, we do cruise outside our province. We've managed to maintain legal residency, but have accepted that there will come a time when this can't happen. We've decided to live without healthcare insurance in all places except the USA. There we would find 3rd party coverage. But in most other places in the world acute care is quite affordable, so we will pay as we go.
One thing I've always been curious about re: Canadian healthcare, but for situations like you describe and as an American planning (hopefully next year...) to sail north, is what happens if you find yourself without coverage?

Say you screwed up and stayed too long outside your Provence, and you need to go get medical service. Do they charge you? What do you figure the charges are compared to U$ healthcare? I'm not talking about octouple bypass type scenarios, but more like blood work, flu (normal), busted knee type stuff.

We've all heard about many people what go without coverage in Central America/Carribean and just pay out of pocket when they need anything done. Do any Canadians just do that an not worry if they might not be covered for some portion of the year?
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Old 24-07-2020, 22:32   #53
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by Argyle38 View Post
One thing I've always been curious about re: Canadian healthcare, but for situations like you describe and as an American planning (hopefully next year...) to sail north, is what happens if you find yourself without coverage?

Say you screwed up and stayed too long outside your Provence, and you need to go get medical service. Do they charge you? What do you figure the charges are compared to U$ healthcare? I'm not talking about octouple bypass type scenarios, but more like blood work, flu (normal), busted knee type stuff.

We've all heard about many people what go without coverage in Central America/Carribean and just pay out of pocket when they need anything done. Do any Canadians just do that an not worry if they might not be covered for some portion of the year?
It's a good question. Funny, but I can't easily find the fee schedule for hospital or physician services for Ontario. Maybe someone else can. I do know while we like to brag about our "free" healthcare in Canada, it's not cheap for the uninsured. We're cheaper than the US, but compared to most other countries in the world, we're pretty expensive. And if you end up in a hospital in Canada and are uninsured you will receive a bill.

Certainly some Canadians travel internationally without any health coverage. Some Canadians or residents fall between the cracks (or fail to respect the residency limits), and end up without coverage here in Canada. But if you're a Canadian citizen, a permanent resident, or many other immigration states, you're likely covered by your province of residence.
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Old 29-07-2020, 06:56   #54
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

It has been mentioned several times in this thread that some (or most, I don't know) third party medical insurers require you to maintain your provincial coverage. This may become a moot point. I vaguely recall a news item awhile back on the TV news (it seems like everything I recall, of late, is vaguely...) that OHIP (Ontario) will no longer provide outside of province coverage. (They used to pay $400/day for hospital stays IIRC).


It strikes me as crooked business that a third party coverage can become null-and-void if your provincial coverage lapses. It would be more fair, if they would simply deduct whatever the provincial coverage would have paid, rather than have an "easy out", to avoid a claim. But that's how the "Insurance" business works.



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Old 29-07-2020, 07:02   #55
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Right now, we have only been able to find providers who do require provincial coverage. Also, some have stated they might not provide travel coverage until some time after the pandemic has been declared over.
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Old 29-07-2020, 07:25   #56
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
It has been mentioned several times in this thread that some (or most, I don't know) third party medical insurers require you to maintain your provincial coverage. This may become a moot point. I vaguely recall a news item awhile back on the TV news (it seems like everything I recall, of late, is vaguely...) that OHIP (Ontario) will no longer provide outside of province coverage. (They used to pay $400/day for hospital stays IIRC).

It strikes me as crooked business that a third party coverage can become null-and-void if your provincial coverage lapses. It would be more fair, if they would simply deduct whatever the provincial coverage would have paid, rather than have an "easy out", to avoid a claim. But that's how the "Insurance" business works.

Nomad57

It's a way for the insurer to limit their exposure. It also costs the customer a lot less. And yes as you say, it gives the company an easy way of avoiding payments at all, which is what all insurers seek to do -- not pay.

I'm sure one could find insurance that does't demand provincial coverage be maintained. I bet it would be substantially higher in cost.
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Old 29-07-2020, 07:38   #57
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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It's a good question. Funny, but I can't easily find the fee schedule for hospital or physician services for Ontario. Maybe someone else can. I do know while we like to brag about our "free" healthcare in Canada, it's not cheap for the uninsured. We're cheaper than the US, but compared to most other countries in the world, we're pretty expensive. And if you end up in a hospital in Canada and are uninsured you will receive a bill.

Certainly some Canadians travel internationally without any health coverage. Some Canadians or residents fall between the cracks (or fail to respect the residency limits), and end up without coverage here in Canada. But if you're a Canadian citizen, a permanent resident, or many other immigration states, you're likely covered by your province of residence.
When my non-resident girlfriend had to see a doctor a few years ago in BC, it was 50 bucks for a GP visit.
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Old 29-07-2020, 08:20   #58
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
It has been mentioned several times in this thread that some (or most, I don't know) third party medical insurers require you to maintain your provincial coverage. This may become a moot point. I vaguely recall a news item awhile back on the TV news (it seems like everything I recall, of late, is vaguely...) that OHIP (Ontario) will no longer provide outside of province coverage. (They used to pay $400/day for hospital stays IIRC).


It strikes me as crooked business that a third party coverage can become null-and-void if your provincial coverage lapses. It would be more fair, if they would simply deduct whatever the provincial coverage would have paid, rather than have an "easy out", to avoid a claim. But that's how the "Insurance" business works.

Nomad57
FYI: Details regarding OHIP coverage while out of Canada.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-cov...or%20territory.


As to insurance coverage of all kinds the devil is in the details and yes you need to read the entirety of the policy to understand what the scope and limitations / deductible and exemptions are. It is never easy to understand and most policy holders never read what their policy really covers and then they act surprised if a claim is denied or only partially covered.

Risk identification and risk transfer negotiation and contracting is complex. Claims and settlements are just after the fact transactions of front end execution of front end policy contracts.
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Old 29-07-2020, 10:18   #59
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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When my non-resident girlfriend had to see a doctor a few years ago in BC, it was 50 bucks for a GP visit.
Sounds about right for a GP visit. I'm sure an emerg visit is in the few hundreds of dollars, and an acute bed stay will probably run multiple hundreds per night.

Still a fraction of US healthcare, but not cheap if you end up needing extensive services.
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Old 29-07-2020, 10:37   #60
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

I went to a ER for an issue but left 2 hrs later before seeing a doctor. Newfoundland. $270 or there abouts. Once they take your name your have that initial fee.
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