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Old 18-07-2020, 14:38   #1
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Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We have spoken with experts and believe we have everything figured out but I would like to bounce our proposal off of someone who is actually doing it to avoid any possible snafus or gotchas down the road.


We will be liveaboards but the vessel will never be in Canada. From a federal government perspective, we believe we will be classified as factual residents. As long as we pay our taxes, the feds don't care where / how we live. This will also ensure we can keep our Canadian banking accounts (and credit cards).



In order to qualify for 3rd party health insurance, we need to maintain our provincial coverage. Other than a one time 2 year exemption, this means we will subsequently need to make visits to Ontario every 7 months. Anyone know of a way around this?



We haven't been able to find a suitable Canadian mail handling service that would work for people without a fixed address somewhere in the world so we will have everything sent to some family. We are open to any recommendations.



From a Canadian expat with no fixed address perspective, does this all make sense? Any suggested improvements or things we have missed?


Thanks.
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Old 18-07-2020, 14:44   #2
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by NaClyDog View Post
We haven't been able to find a suitable Canadian mail handling service that would work for people without a fixed address somewhere in the world so we will have everything sent to some family. We are open to any recommendations.
While I was working overseas I used these people as mail forwarders ... A few bits of my mail still seem to go to them ... they've been very good.
https://www.canadianaddress.ca/
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Old 18-07-2020, 14:50   #3
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by Kelkara View Post
While I was working overseas I used these people as mail forwarders ... A few bits of my mail still seem to go to them ... they've been very good.
https://www.canadianaddress.ca/
Thank you, will have a look.
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Old 18-07-2020, 15:20   #4
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

FYI:
As to Ontarios health insurance program.
Planning on being away for more than seven months
If you plan to be outside Canada for more than seven months in any 12-month period you can keep your OHIP coverage for up to two years if you:

have a valid health card
make Ontario your primary home
will be in Ontario for at least 153 days a year in each of the two years immediately before you leave the country

Before you leave, take the following items to the nearest ServiceOntario centre to make sure your OHIP coverage stays active:
your health card
proof of residency (e.g. mortgage, lease or rental agreement, property tax bill, valid driver’s licence)

You may be out of the province for up to 212 days in any 12-month period and still maintain your Ontario health insurance coverage provided that you continue to make Ontario your primary place of residence.

To maintain eligibility for OHIP coverage you must be an eligible resident of Ontario. This means that you must :

have an OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration status; and
be physically present in Ontario for 153 days in any 12-month period; and
be physically present in Ontario for at least 153 days of the first 183 days immediately after establishing residency in the province; and
make your primary place of residence in Ontario.

If you will be out of the province for more than 212 days in any 12-month period, please refer to the Longer Absences from Ontario fact sheet. Linked here: https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-cov...nada#section-0

If your job or studies require you to leave Ontario frequently and you are unable to be present for 153 days in any 12-month period, you may still be eligible for OHIP coverage as a mobile worker or mobile student. To maintain your OHIP coverage, you should:

be able to provide acceptable documents that show that your work requires frequent travel in and out of Ontario or that your full-time academic program in Ontario requires travel outside of Ontario; and
be able to provide acceptable documents to show how you make your primary place of residence in Ontario (refer to Ontario Health Coverage Document List). Reference the document downloadable here Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Identification

New or returning residents to Ontario who qualify as a mobile worker or mobile student are exempt from having to meet the 153-day in the first 183-day physical presence requirement immediately after establishing residency in Ontario.

Every province and territory has residency rules that must be followed in order to remain eligible for government health insurance coverage - stay out of the country too long, and you run the risk of being ineligible and losing your health card privileges.

Losing your provincial coverage can be particularly devastating for snowbirds, as it can have serious implications on two fronts:

When you return to Canada, your provincial plan won’t cover any of your medical expenses, which could result in significant or even devastating medical bills for services we are so used to receiving free of charge, including doctor visits, testing, treatments, procedures and hospital stays.

You can apply for a health card renewal when you return to your province of residence, but the process can be long and tedious and leave you without medical coverage for months while you get your eligibility back and your application works its way through the system.

A lesser known, but equally dangerous consequence for Canadian snowbirds who lose their provincial health insurance coverage is that any travel medical insurance policy you have purchased to cover medical expenses incurred outside Canada won’t cover your claims unless your provincial health care insurance is valid.

Your travel insurance policy will have a term requiring you to be covered by your province’s health care plan for the full term of your insurance, as insurance companies co-ordinate any claims you make while outside Canada with your province to recoup some of your medical expenses. If your provincial health care coverage lapses, your travel medical insurance policy will become null and void in almost all circumstances.

Be aware that maintaining your provincial health care coverage does not mean you'll be covered for medical expenses outside Canada. Provinces severely limit the types of medical services covered and coverage amounts medical expenses incurred outside Canada, only covering a very small fraction of these costs.

For example, a hospital stay in the U.S. can cost $10,000 or more per day, but Ontario OHIP will only cover a maximum of $400 per day - a measly 4% of your total out of country hospital stay costs!

To ensure you're covered for unexpected medical expenses while travelling, you'll need to purchase snowbird travel medical insurance.


Determining your residency status
Under Canada's tax system, your income tax obligations to Canada are based on your residency status. You need to know your residency status before you can know what your tax responsibilities and filing requirements to Canada are.

An individual's residency status is determined on a case by case basis and the individual's whole situation and all the relevant facts must be considered.

The following steps can help you determine your residency status for income tax purposes and your tax obligations to Canada.

Step 1: Determine if you have residential ties with Canada
The most important thing to consider when determining your residency status in Canada for income tax purposes is whether or not you maintain, or you establish, residential ties with Canada.

Significant residential ties to Canada include:

a home in Canada
a spouse or common-law partner in Canada
dependants in Canada

Secondary residential ties that may be relevant include:

personal property in Canada, such as a car or furniture
social ties in Canada, such as memberships in Canadian recreational or religious organizations
economic ties in Canada, such as Canadian bank accounts or credit cards
a Canadian driver's licence
a Canadian passport
health insurance with a Canadian province or territory
To determine residence status, all of the relevant facts in each case must be considered, including residential ties with Canada and length of time, object, intent, and continuity while living inside and outside Canada.
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Old 18-07-2020, 15:33   #5
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We have international health coverage, $2 US cap, $4,000 US/ year for 2. Works everywhere except USA.

Might be cheaper overall than jumping through all those hoops.
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Old 18-07-2020, 15:48   #6
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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We have international health coverage, $2 US cap, $4,000 US/ year for 2. Works everywhere except USA.

Might be cheaper overall than jumping through all those hoops.
Thank you, mind sharing your provider?
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Old 18-07-2020, 15:59   #7
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We will be doing almost the exact same thing in a little less than a year. The only exception being, we are keeping our house and rent it to friends. Alberta (where we live) has a very similar 2-year health coverage sabbatical program. I have heard tell of some families having got extensions on the two-year limit just by asking. It canít hurt to ask if thatís an option.

How will you manage prescriptions? Thatís a big one for us. I have a huge number.

FYI, I and my husband are a lawyer and an accountant, and youíre right about never bringing the boat to canada. Itís a big tax bill if you do. Will you be registering in Canada?
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Old 18-07-2020, 16:00   #8
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Iíd be interested to know the provider as well! We are about a year out from departure, and need to sort health cover out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
We have international health coverage, $2 US cap, $4,000 US/ year for 2. Works everywhere except USA.

Might be cheaper overall than jumping through all those hoops.
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Old 18-07-2020, 17:08   #9
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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Originally Posted by SVNagambie View Post
We will be doing almost the exact same thing in a little less than a year. The only exception being, we are keeping our house and rent it to friends. Alberta (where we live) has a very similar 2-year health coverage sabbatical program. I have heard tell of some families having got extensions on the two-year limit just by asking. It canít hurt to ask if thatís an option.

How will you manage prescriptions? Thatís a big one for us. I have a huge number.

FYI, I and my husband are a lawyer and an accountant, and youíre right about never bringing the boat to canada. Itís a big tax bill if you do. Will you be registering in Canada?
We don't have many prescriptions and the ones we do have are supposedly very cheap to fill in countries other than the US. Should that change, we will re-visit getting 3rd party insurance for that as well.


If you find a provider for that, I would be interested in hearing.


We were only able to get insurance by registering in Jersey. I responded in your other thread re: provider.


Cheers.
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Old 18-07-2020, 18:01   #10
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Try this guy.

Tell him Howard Peer sent you.

rickb@gowrie.com
(860) 399-3634
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Old 18-07-2020, 19:55   #11
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We've been cruising seasonally within Canada, but outside our home province, for about five years now. Montanan has quoted all the relevant details, but I believe you can maintain federal residence status pretty easily. Maintaining provincial health care status is harder.

As I understand it, you must be resident in the province for five months (153 days) of each 12-month period, so it's not just a question of making visits every 7 months. You need to physically in the province for 5 months.

There is provision to take a 2-year sabbatical, and I believe it is now possible to take multiple such sabbaticals through a process of renewal of eligibility, but the basic rule is you gotta be here 5 months of each periods to maintain eligibility.

Of note, this means being in the province (presumably Ontario), not just in Canada. As we know, healthcare is provincial, so it's not good enough to be 5 months in Canada. You gotta be 5 months in Ontario.

We use a relative as our mail forwarder. It has worked fine for us, but we've also diverted most of our mail to digital delivery. This gives us a permanent address so we can retain driver's licenses and health cards and all the other stuff that government requires fixed addresses for.
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Old 18-07-2020, 23:13   #12
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

We are in Alberta, pretty similar rules. My doctor told me the 5 months in for health care was basically on the honor system, and not to worry too much if I was still coming home for visits.
The mail we get, and our physical adress, is our son's home. That does make things easier.
Third party insurance, I can't remember who we use but I can dig it up tomorrow. There is some talk of dan(divers alert network) supplying to canadians soon.
Someone mentioned prescriptions. Most restrictions (outside restricted drugs) are limited only by insurance providers. If you pay out of pocket you can buy for longer periods. I use thyroid supplements and can get 6 months at a time, or longer if the expiration dates allow.
Edit, health insurance provider is called securiglobe
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Old 19-07-2020, 04:17   #13
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

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We are in Alberta, pretty similar rules. My doctor told me the 5 months in for health care was basically on the honor system, and not to worry too much if I was still coming home for visits.
The mail we get, and our physical adress, is our son's home. That does make things easier.
Third party insurance, I can't remember who we use but I can dig it up tomorrow. There is some talk of dan(divers alert network) supplying to canadians soon.
Someone mentioned prescriptions. Most restrictions (outside restricted drugs) are limited only by insurance providers. If you pay out of pocket you can buy for longer periods. I use thyroid supplements and can get 6 months at a time, or longer if the expiration dates allow.
Edit, health insurance provider is called securiglobe
Thanks.


This is basically the same our doctor said. He has us on yearly physicals but said he could work on your "availability" and still keep a routine.


One of the prescription meds I take is levothyroxine (supposedly cheap to buy out of pocket outside the US), have you had any issues getting your meds outside of Canada?
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Old 19-07-2020, 05:00   #14
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
We are in Alberta, pretty similar rules. My doctor told me the 5 months in for health care was basically on the honor system, and not to worry too much if I was still coming home for visits.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaClyDog View Post
Thanks.
This is basically the same our doctor said. He has us on yearly physicals but said he could work on your "availability" and still keep a routine.
Personally, I'd be wary of political/bureaucratic advice from your GP. A lot of travelers have taken this "flying under the radar" approach for a long time. But as computer networks become more integrated, and data is more easily exchanged, provincial healthcare departments certainly could take advantage of this (if they aren't already).

It's one thing to cross provincial borders, but international travel produces a data track that could easily be used. It's been a growing issue of concern in the snowbird community and organizations like CARP. So just be wary is all.
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Old 19-07-2020, 05:51   #15
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Re: Any liveaboard Canadian expat nomads here?

For anyone doing way way future planning... PSHCP covers you out of Canada. Itís one of the reasons Iím at the job Iím at now.
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