A small idea, a huge savings.

[Papasail]

This is likely the year I buy a sailboat (I like 38’ Island Packets). My question centers around the transom…. I’m a water bug, and want to (swim) in the Caribbeans (a lot). I’m 61, but some nagging injuries are beginning to take their toll. 1996 IP’s have a sugarscoop, but earlier models do not…. this can drop the “buy it” budget from $150,000 - $180,000 down to a much easier $80,000 - $120,000.

I’ve heard Lady-K Youtube channel talk about *walk-through transoms as even more amazing.

Is a square stern/ no sugarscoop actually a problem, if you (know) you want to swim a lot? Or is sugarscoop style access not ultimately that valuable. Some square sterns seem to have drop-down tailgates as an answer?

I don’t have the slightest idea what getting in, on, or off the stern is like: would appreciate understanding how you folks handle it, vs. value~no value.

Thx!

[notoldbilbo]

Even with a 'sugarscoop' you'll need a rigid boarding ladder of sorts.

You can have a very fine, elegant boarding ladder crafted and fitted with your savings from buying an earlier model, and still have lots and lots of shekels in your pocket for other desirable goodies.

[leecea]

A lot depends on your injuries and what they mean for getting up and down a ladder. Also, you will be using a dinghy a lot and have to get on and off that, perhaps with groceries or cases of rum

Can you climb a normal land based ladder? What about when you're tired from swimming?

I also imagine there are other differences between these boats for the extra $60K.

[Brioche]

If you swim in a swimming pool and climb out on the ladder there is no reason you would have trouble with a transom-hung boarding ladder. I have nearly two decades on you and use the ladder.

[stormalong]

Better than a stern mount ladder is a side mount. I had a side mount three fold custom made about 30 years ago that fits where the lifeline gate is located. It has hinges bolted to the aluminum toerail and when folded the lifeline gates hold it in place. IMO, in an emergency, in rough seas it is much safer to board the boat amidships than from the stern. Fortunately, have not had to test that theory. Also good for getting in and out of the dinghy. Sorry, no picture available at the moment.

[Greatest Lakes]

I have a side mount ladder, it's fine for me, but the vertical climb over all the freeboard is a bit much for some. Nearly had to use the lifesling to help someone out of the water last summer when we anchored for a swim. A low stern with a swim platform is much easier to use, Jeanneau 54 is a good example.

[Orion Jim]

There is far less motion with a side mount ladder than with a stern boarding ladder/scoop. When I was younger it made no difference, whereas now it does.

[Papasail]

Very helpful!!!

I had not suspected these answers!

I did imagine creating some sort of ladder where each step got further away from the transom as it hit the water….
something like a “stair-ladder”.

My left knee has a substantial meniscal tear (bending heal to butt is a bad thing, like squatting on a ladder in a low rolly wave), and I would hate to have a random unruly-sea moment that caused even further injury, particularly as a solo sailor.

Add in the idea that scuba and the logistics of moving all that gear back and forth/ getting set to go, will be important.

[valhalla360]

Get a good 4 step (steps under the water) dive ladder. Much easier to climb out with than the standard 2 step swim ladders.

Do consider adding a hinged mount with a release, so you can deploy it from the water. If someone falls off and help is not readily available, you want to be able to deploy the ladder while in the water.

[Papasail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Get a good 4 step (steps under the water) dive ladder. Much easier to climb out with than the standard 2 step swim ladders.

Do consider adding a hinged mount with a release, so you can deploy it from the water. If someone falls off and help is not readily available, you want to be able to deploy the ladder while in the water.

Sage advice…[emoji1360]!
Being unable to get back aboard my own boat would not be a good thing (just the sort of thing I might do). 🤣

[Lee Jerry]

You might also be able to add a swim platform to the transom and then a (smaller) ladder off of it into the water, with fixed steps going up. That's what we did to our 1989 Tayana.

Could still have the side ladder at the gateway. That way you have options depending on the weather - transom difficult when pitching, side difficult when rolling.

[Marathon1150]

We have two boats - one with a sugar scoop and one without. I find it easier to get back on the non-sugar scoop version. The sugar scoop is nice for some things but getting back on the boat, at least in our case, is not one of them. Getting back into the cockpit from the scoop is a bit of a challenge as there is only one step on the transom above the sugar scoop and not much to hold on to other than the backstay.

I also strongly support the recommendation that you need to be able to get the ladder down from the water. Again, our non-sugar scoop version is easier to set up to do this than the other, albeit it should be possible under ideal conditions to hoist oneself up onto the sugar scoop deck.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Papasail

Sage advice…[emoji1360]!
Being unable to get back aboard my own boat would not be a good thing (just the sort of thing I might do). 🤣

On a related follow up...just because you are fit and can easily lunge up to grab the gunnel and drag yourself aboard in normal situations, doesn't mean you won't break your hand when falling overboard such that you can no longer rely on your athleticism.

[George_SD]

We have the sugar-scoop walk-through. It's so easy to pop out of the water and to just pull yourself onto the scoop and then just walk into the boat. That said - given the difference in cost, i would suggest going with the cheaper version in a better condition and getting 2 ladders added - midship and on the transom, plus some custom railing so you don't have to balance or grab onto random object once you reach the deck.

[PerfectPirate]

There is a lot to said in favour of the midships ladders, the motion is much gentler there, particularly if there is a swell running. The downside is that, unless they are easily removable, they may block your gate access when at the dock and may also be vulnerable to damage during docking manuevers, yours or your neighbour's. Then again, I have had a transom-mounted ladder destroyed when somebody rear-ended me during a mark rounding, so no location is invulnerable.

In my experience, there is one key factor which nobody in this thread has yet discussed. Here it is: boarding ladders which are perfectly functional when you are young and more fit will often prove to be too short once you are older, and both your flexibility and upper body strength are diminished.

Whatever style of ladder you buy, make sure that it has steps on top of the stainless rungs and extends at least two rungs, and preferably three, below the waterline. That does not count the rung which is actually at the waterline. I recently replaced a perfectly adequate transom ladder with a custom-made unit for this exact reason. The old ladder was perfectly functional for my 30-year-old daughter, but not so much for my wife and I. Reaching old age sucks, but it's still way better than the alternative.

I have also spoken with sailors who have added swim platforms to closed-transom boats. One of them, a very experienced surveyor and lifelong sailor, told me that although the large, stainless, fold-up platform on his boat had been beautifully executed, he would not have such an installation again. He felt that it created a liability, especially in heavy, following seas. It also added considerable weight to the stern, where it is not desirable, and required moderately complicated rigging. Fixed platforms are particularly vulnerable to damage and may also inflict considerable damage to the transom if they snag on something, or are struck by a passing boat. I believe in keeping the hull as clean and simple as possible.