Free: Boat Sitting over Winter

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

I don't believe that those of us less trusting are projecting anything, we are just better at sniffing out freeloaders.

Ninenty nine percent of person's behaviour is motivated by self interest, including friendliness...

Psychological Egoism suggests that all behaviours are motivated by self-interest.
Altruism, in other words, does not exist.
I don’t think we’re so simple.

I’d argue that self-interest is an important human motive. However, I’d also emphasize that other human motives exist. These include empathy toward others, co-operation with others [conflict avoidance], adherence to moral duty, and even aesthetic principles.

Furthermore, altruistic acts need not involve self-sacrifice, and they remain altruistic, even when they are performed from a mixture of motives, some of which might be self-interested.

In any case, a theory must be “falsifiable”*.
Most North Americans, for example, leave tips, even after dining in restaurants, they will never visit again. We make anonymous donations to charity.
Of course, the dedicated egoist will attempt to use sophistry, to counter these examples of altruism - saying that we only do these kind acts to “feel” good, about ourselves, not to “do” good, for others.

Perhaps the people you know are like this.
But my experience of the world must be rather different from yours.
I know many people, who try to benefit others for their sake. I myself act altruistically. So, at most, your theory applies only to the people in your social world.

We should, also, not be confused by the fact that “self-interested” and “altruistic” are opposites. A single motive cannot be characterized in both ways; but a single act, can be undertaken from both motives.
Being motivated by self-interest is not a bad thing, and when your own personal self-interest is aligned with the best interest of society, great things can happen.

It’s important not to fall into the trap of thinking in terms of “absolutes”, which is also known as ‘all or nothing’ thinking.

Unfortunately, the narrow self-interest model, which encourages us to expect the worst in others, often brings out the worst in us, as well.

* In science, philosophy, and methodology, falsifiability is the capacity for a given proposition, statement, theory or hypothesis to be contradicted (proven wrong) with obvious compelling evidence under the same conditions or parameters for which the prediction should hold true in the positive.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

You win at the -stringing cliches together - contest. Unfortunately, none substitute for common sense.

Well, the best part of being old [like I], is forgivable, momentary, lapses of common sense.

I tend to spew cliches, like crazy.
It saves so much useless thinking, about actual helpful advice.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

I don't believe that those of us less trusting are projecting anything, we are just better at sniffing out freeloaders.

Ninenty nine percent of person's behaviour is motivated by self interest, including friendliness.

It is easy to be trusting when in reality one is not providing much of anything of value.

is that really how you look at things?

I might be kind of a loudmouth on the forum with people, but in real life I go out of my way to help others with no self interest involved.

case in point. I rented a car about a week ago and drove some people up to go skiing. Times are a bit tight right now for me. For some reason. Everything is kind of hitting me from all ends financially. I gave a ride to two other people. I never asked for any money in terms of the rental car or fuel or tolls or whatever. After the trip was over the next day or a week later each of them offered to pay a share on Venmo. I wouldn’t do it. I’m happy that I was able to give those people some joy to go do something fun and get some enjoyment out of life. this was part of a much larger group so I didn’t have to give these people a ride from a “being friendly for selfish reasons” perspective. I still had plenty of people I could have went up to see in the group without helping these people. They were complete strangers.

sounds like we are from really different cultures.

The ones who offered to pay were an Indian guy and Korean girl. those are their cultural origins.

for a moment let’s just pretend everything is negative and awful in the world. So if it is, why wouldn’t I want my boat attended as compared to left alone and subject to damage?

for purely selfish reasons, I would prefer someone on my boat if I have to leave it for a long time. boats don’t do very well with long term storage. Everything breaks. The head. Engines. Generators. water makers. seacocks. You name it. Things need to be exercised on a boat. The less they are used the more prone they are to breaking.

then there is the matter of when something goes wrong. Leaking seacock, leaking port or hatch, these things can cause tremendous damage. A boat is made to be attended.

it’s definitely to the owner’s advantage from a purely selfish point of view to have someone there that can alert you when something goes wrong and you can fix it before there is it a chain of events that causes a real problem or loss of the boat. It’s also nice for them to start your engine every once in a while. Stuff like that. Keeping things in order. So the boat is ready when you return.

and that doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of saving $12,000 or so for a six month period leaving the boat at anchor and attended rather than leaving it in a marina. it doesn’t matter how much damage the person does when you are saving $12,000 in 6 months. You can fix whatever it is very easily for that money.

Example. They don’t know what they’re doing with the dinghy. They are planing along at top speed and smash into a rock and destroy your Outboard. Completely. So what? Just buy another one. You’re still thousands and thousands of dollars ahead.

From a cold calculating and selfish point of view, saving $24,000 a year IS insurance. Free insurance. You don’t even have to pay a premium for it.

you are collecting your claim on a monthly basis. Not only is the boat better protected with someone there, but you are pocketing $2,000 a month in claims payouts for every month you have a boat sitter. Damage or no damage

[Mike OReilly]

The point about societal trust levels is that some areas of the world really are populated by people who are less trustworthy. Just like there are known areas of the world with higher crime rates, and even piracy, there are areas where people can't be trusted as much.

This is a sad reality, but it is true. One can only feel sympathy for people who find themselves living in those areas. But one would be foolish to ignore this reality.

The World Data site I referenced earlier is not very granular. It provides national-level scores for societal trust. But if I overlay house-sitting to this map, the correlation between high trust countries is strong.

BTW, human psychological research has long dismissed the simplistic notion that we only, or even largely, operate on self-interest. Humans, and indeed most big-brained creatures, are far more complex than this. Altruism is a real feature of our makeup, as are dozens of other characteristics.

But with regard to 'sitting' situations, the driving force is mutual benefit. It's the classic win-win for both parties, which is what makes it so attractive -- at least for those of us who have learned we can trust others.

[team karst]

"A boat is made to be attended."

yeah, if a boat-watcher only looks from the outside, and cares only about waterline position and dock line attachment, that's less than half the worry. Water entry must be fixed right away.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW: Here in Tasmania many house sitting situations are driven by the homeowner's insurance, not hindered by it! Seems that the owners are not allowed to leave the house unoccupied for more than a specified period (usually a few weeks or so). They MUST have the premises occupied or the insurance is void... and hence, a sitter (like us, for instance) is used.

Sure makes sense to me, but not really related to boat-sitting, because most pleasure boats are unoccupied most of their lives.

Jim

That's pretty darn interesting. I like hearing cultural factoids.
It also brings to light that the "Boat Sitting" concept might be more relevant to those outside of the U.S.

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by Chotu

is that really how you look at things?
...

Chotu, if you truly need help, you will get the shirt off my back.

However what started this thread is someone looking for a free vacation in exchange for keeping a holding tank topped off.

That will not happened and I am not shy to let them know the reson why.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

Chotu, if you truly need help, you will get the shirt off my back.

However what started this thread is someone looking for a free vacation in exchange for keeping a holding tank topped off.

That will not happened and I am not shy to let them know the reson why.

Incorrect. What started this thread is someone asking about boat sitting. This is NOT a "free vacation." This is an exchange of services; a place to live in exchange for care and maintenance.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

Chotu, if you truly need help, you will get the shirt off my back.

However what started this thread is someone looking for a free vacation in exchange for keeping a holding tank topped off.

That will not happened and I am not shy to let them know the reson why.

OK, despite the debate, that was really really funny. ha ha ha.

maybe along with the trust intersection we should also look at the intersection of composting heads with people who would be down for having boat sitters.

Maybe you’re onto something with that holding tank joke

[SeaBreeze-1]

Just putting my endorsement out for Wilson to anyone considering a boatsitter over the winter (or any other time for that matter). I’ve known him for several years and can say that between his experience and personal character, your pride and joy will be in capable and safe hands.

Happy New Year Wilson!! “Long May your big jib draw”.

Cheers:
Larry & Wanita
SV Amiro II

[OneBoatman]

Friend maybe. Are you suggesting that there a lot of boatowners wanting to pay a stranger to be aboard their boat while they are not. Interesting. I would prefer not to leave my boat at risk for theft. When cruising I try be friendly with boats at anchor nearby where someone could possibly recognize trouble. Do you mean sitters for boats on the hook? Do you first check with your insurance company? If your boat is at a slip or on the hard that is what the management is supposed to do, that is check and tighten stands, notify owners if they hear alarms, see a boat which may be listing, see an electrical hazard, or a dock line about to fail. Otherwise, I think not.

[ccanupii]

I think without some sort of verifiable resume and a bond is a big ask of anyone. Why all the assurances? How about this: Does anyone I don't know, and says they have knowledge want to come stay on my yacht I have spent the last two years refitting. It's in the Miami area with easy access to the Bahmas, Cuba, the Gulf and the Eastern seabord. She is full of diesel and ready to go. Also, all my valuables are on board for you to go through. Just as long as you promise to not steal the boat or have a party we are all good. She is currently valued at 300k and will hold 30 people nicely.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

Friend maybe. Are you suggesting that there a lot of boatowners wanting to pay a stranger to be aboard their boat while they are not. Interesting. I would prefer not to leave my boat at risk for theft. When cruising I try be friendly with boats at anchor nearby where someone could possibly recognize trouble. Do you mean sitters for boats on the hook? Do you first check with your insurance company? If your boat is at a slip or on the hard that is what the management is supposed to do, that is check and tighten stands, notify owners if they hear alarms, see a boat which may be listing, see an electrical hazard, or a dock line about to fail. Otherwise, I think not.

In most cases, at least in the house-sitting world, no money exchanges hands. It is an exchange of services.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

I think without some sort of verifiable resume and a bond is a big ask of anyone. Why all the assurances? How about this: Does anyone I don't know, and says they have knowledge want to come stay on my yacht I have spent the last two years refitting. It's in the Miami area with easy access to the Bahmas, Cuba, the Gulf and the Eastern seabord. She is full of diesel and ready to go. Also, all my valuables are on board for you to go through. Just as long as you promise to not steal the boat or have a party we are all good. She is currently valued at 300k and will hold 30 people nicely.

We’ve already been over this territory on this thread, but yes, it is a big ask. That’s why any sitting situation requires the building of trust — on both sides. As a sitter, I’m coming into a new space with nothing but the owner’s assurances that things are as they claim. On the flip side, an owner is going on what the sitter tells them about who they are, and what they know.

In the house sitting world financial bonds are rare, but reputation goes a long way to building trust.

[MultiCountryDon]

Simple definition of differences:
A HOUSE stays put. You can find it. The police can find it. I had a surgeon with verified references destroy my lakefront chalet during a holiday rental.
A BOAT can move. Quietly, in the middle of the night. Your neighbors think you left on a cruise. They don't contact you for weeks and then finally ask if you are enjoying the islands. GONE.
That is the difference.

TRUST= Bernie Maddoff and a lot like him.
I trust people that I have known for years, not days or weeks.

Just me.
Don