Free: Boat Sitting over Winter

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Or some people simply understand the liabilities involved. Having seen and helped resolve such cases over many years, it’s hard to have the naive view that it’s all about perception.

since we are talking about psychology, I do have to mention something about this.

all you saw were the cases where there was a problem. You didn’t see all the ones that were good. With good outcomes and good people. That’s a bit of a bias. not intentional on your part, but you weren’t exposed to all of the good outcomes.

and I would say that’s part of culture. You absorb things from your surroundings. If you are surrounded with good outcomes from people boat sitting, you will expect good outcomes. If you are surrounded with bad outcomes, you will expect bad outcomes.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Chotu

since we are talking about psychology, I do have to mention something about this.

all you saw were the cases where there was a problem. You didn’t see all the ones that were good. With good outcomes and good people. That’s a bit of a bias. not intentional on your part, but you weren’t exposed to all of the good outcomes.

and I would say that’s part of culture. You absorb things from your surroundings. If you are surrounded with good outcomes from people boat sitting, you will expect good outcomes. If you are surrounded with bad outcomes, you will expect bad outcomes.

Why presume I am unaware of “good stories”?

I’ve had good experiences with used car salesmen but that doesn’t negate the bad stories about them just as it doesn’t here.

The “half full -half empty” metaphor is a stylish cliche, however, “due diligence” is too and that’s all I suggest regardless of how your perceptions color your opinions.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Or some people simply understand the liabilities involved.

This.

I don't know how this thread turned into a "Trust" issue.


As I mentioned before, those who think it's okay to have a stranger sit on their boat, call your insurance company this morning and ask them if it's okay... if they tell you it's not, ask them why they don't "Trust" people.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Why presume I am unaware of “good stories”?

I’ve had good experiences with used car salesmen but that doesn’t negate the bad stories about them just as it doesn’t here.

The “half full -half empty” metaphor is a stylish cliche, however, “due diligence” is too and that’s all I suggest regardless of how your perceptions color your opinions.

well, because you just told us so.

you just said that you have seen all sorts of cases where things go bad and you help sort them out. That’s what you were exposed to.

are you trying to tell me you were exposed to just as many good cases? And by the way, there are probably far more good outcomes than there are bad outcomes.

I doubt you have equal exposure. That wasn’t part of your job.

truthfully, I haven’t been exposed to any cases. I don’t know anyone who has been boat sitting or has received boat sitting services from anyone. I know about housesitting and people who have had housesitting done. there has never been a bad case of that among the people I know who have had their houses (and complicated animals) taken care of.


And somehow miraculously the homeowners insurance didn’t care.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Chotu

well, because you just told us so.

you just said that you have seen all sorts of cases where things go bad and you help sort them out. That’s what you were exposed to.

You incorrectly presume that’s all I “have been exposed to”

are you trying to tell me you were exposed to just as many good cases? And by the way, there are probably far more good outcomes than there are bad outcomes.

Why are you arguing? Clearly you have no clue what my experience is and simply presume it one-sided. It’s a more valid assumption I have “been exposed to” more cases of every color as have you. It is generally through solid planning and structuring agreements which leads to the many good outcomes I’ve seen.

I doubt you have equal exposure. That wasn’t part of your job.

My job included overseeing a myriad of contracts associated with managing boats, buying boats, resolving disputes, creating solid relationships, etc…

In so doing, it is likely my “exposure” is far more varied than yours but regardless, I suspect most people ascribe to the concept of due diligence rather than “hope and pray” which is all I suggest here.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Perhaps, those of us, who are less trusting of others, are merely projecting our own lack of trust-worthiness, on to others.

People always perceive the world around them through the lens of their own experience, context, and emotional state.

In psychology, 'projection' refers to placing your own negative traits, or unwanted emotions, onto others, usually without reason.
Like a lot of aspects of human behaviour, projection comes down to self-defence; which protects you from having to acknowledge parts of yourself, you don’t like.

On the other hand, people who can accept their failures and weaknesses, and who are comfortable reflecting on the good, bad, and ugly within, tend not to project. They have no need, as they can tolerate recognizing, or experiencing, the negatives, about themselves.

I'm sure there are tons of human psychological heuristics that come into play in the "sitting" dynamic. Certainly projection is one. The other would be fear of loss. We prioritize potential loss over possible gain, which is why insurance is so easy to sell.

As for trust levels, like most cultural aspects, it is learned behaviour based on reality (or at least, perceived reality). There ARE areas of this world with poorer social connections than others. There are areas where what I might call 'uncivil behaviour' is high. If your lived experience is that you are surrounded by untrustworthy people, that you would be a fool (naive, as some here say) to easily trust others.

Luckily, there are still many places in this wonderful world where the opposite is true. Here, people learn that they can trust others, even strangers.

BTW, and as I keep explaining, by the time a sit happens, the sitters and the home/boat owners are no longer strangers. So it is a false scenario to say "go ask your insurance company about having strangers look after your boat." This is never how it happens.


ADD: There's no doubt that there are bad outcomes in some sitting events. But it is a small percentage (speaking anecdotally, as someone directly involved in the house side). It's like saying all AirBnB is bad because of the horror stories that occasionally come up. Or that you should never fly because of all the few problems that occur.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Iron E

This.

I don't know how this thread turned into a "Trust" issue.


As I mentioned before, those who think it's okay to have a stranger sit on their boat, call your insurance company this morning and ask them if it's okay... if they tell you it's not, ask them why they don't "Trust" people.

done. And you were wrong.

we were all wrong.

it has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Nothing at all.

Someone with some type of liveaboard policy needs to try this.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

You incorrectly presume that’s all I “have been exposed to”


Why are you arguing? Clearly you have no clue what my experience is and simply presume it one-sided. It’s a more valid assumption I have “been exposed to” more cases of every color as have you. It is generally through solid planning and structuring agreements which leads to the many good outcomes I’ve seen.



My job included overseeing a myriad of contracts associated with managing boats, buying boats, resolving disputes, creating solid relationships, etc…

In so doing, it is likely my “exposure” is far more varied than yours but regardless, I suspect most people ascribe to the concept of due diligence rather than “hope and pray” which is all I suggest here.

I suspect that most of the "heat" in this discussion revolves around history and current life.

Let me see - an example - My grandfather ran a business for many decades without insurance, without contracts, without the need for lawyers and arbitration. He was born in the 1800's. He died in the 1960's. All of his business was done via word of mouth and a handshake when the deal was finalized. It was a simpler time and one that many aspects we tend to still yearn for.

Integrity of humans to honor their "word" has new meanings today. It's a reality of the current world, and many of us fight against this and prefer to live more in the past, or perhaps with the principals that were more common in the perceived past.

In the current world, I run with my gut - if I feel i need the paper contracts to have things spelled out, then I'll go that route. If I feel it's not needed, and I much prefer this, I will do it through a handshake and word of mouth. It's two different worlds...

dj

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Chotu

done. And you were wrong.

we were all wrong.

it has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Nothing at all.

Someone with some type of liveaboard policy needs to try this.

You obviously weren't paying attention to "What I was talking about". And you've changed the question of the legal liabilities of having a boat sitter, into "Can a friend stay on my boat?"

Personally, I would to tell my insurance company that I would be doing a transaction with a "Boat Sitter". I would ask specifically if my insurance company would cover a boat sitter in the event of an accident and/or injuries.
I've had many business policies written over the years, words matter on a policy.

Edit: I've also been surprised by insurance companies that add very low cost writers for unusual requests. For example, I once needed to increase my 1,000,000 to 5,000,000 on a job. My Insurance company added the writer for $62.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, I agree with Iron E's concept.

Don't ask what you can do, ask for a rider on the policy to cover "John Smith" as well as yourself, for the period of the sit. Get the price and see what you want to do.

Ann

With regard to would someone's homeowners insurance cover liability for injury to a house sitter, I would expect it would, the house sitter is an invited guest. We were told to not use the tall ladders, for instance; our owners were concerned about falls. The thing about house sits is that as Mike suggests, we are already friendly acquaintances by then (friends). It is normal to have friends as guests.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW: Here in Tasmania many house sitting situations are driven by the homeowner's insurance, not hindered by it! Seems that the owners are not allowed to leave the house unoccupied for more than a specified period (usually a few weeks or so). They MUST have the premises occupied or the insurance is void... and hence, a sitter (like us, for instance) is used.

Sure makes sense to me, but not really related to boat-sitting, because most pleasure boats are unoccupied most of their lives.

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW: Here in Tasmania many house sitting situations are driven by the homeowner's insurance, not hindered by it! Seems that the owners are not allowed to leave the house unoccupied for more than a specified period (usually a few weeks or so). They MUST have the premises occupied or the insurance is void... and hence, a sitter (like us, for instance) is used.

Sure makes sense to me, but not really related to boat-sitting, because most pleasure boats are unoccupied most of their lives.

Same here in Canada. The insurance requirement is definitely driving some of the demand.

And for those who think this is some sort of fringe activity, just search "house sitting" in your favourite search tool. You'll quickly find one of the dozen or so active house sitting match-maker websites. Scan the listings. There are hundreds of active requests from all over the world all the time. I could easily house-sit 365 days/year if I wanted to.

This is why some of us see boat sitting as a new potential frontier for this aspect of a true sharing economy. It's taken years to build awareness in the house world. I think the boating world is where the house world was a decade ago.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

... The “half full -half empty” metaphor is a stylish cliche, however, “due diligence” is too and that’s all I suggest regardless of how your perceptions color your opinions.

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Or some people simply understand the liabilities involved. Having seen and helped resolve such cases over many years, it’s hard to have the naive view that it’s all about perception.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm sure there are tons of human psychological heuristics that come into play in the "sitting" dynamic. Certainly projection is one. The other would be fear of loss. We prioritize potential loss over possible gain, which is why insurance is so easy to sell ...

Seldom, are issues of judgement, “all about” any one thing. In this case, 'projection' may be one, of several, factors at play.
Perhaps, I should have said:
“Perhaps, those some of us, who are less trusting of others, are merely sometimes projecting [some of] our own lack of trust-worthiness, on to others.

And, of course, we’re all aware that sometime the glass is s neither half full, nor half empty - it may, sometimes, be twice as large, as need be.

[5BTM]

I don't believe that those of us less trusting are projecting anything, we are just better at sniffing out freeloaders.

Ninenty nine percent of person's behaviour is motivated by self interest, including friendliness.

It is easy to be trusting when in reality one is not providing much of anything of value.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Seldom, are issues of judgement, “all about” any one thing. In this case, 'projection' may be one, of several, factors at play.
Perhaps, I should have said:
“Perhaps, those some of us, who are less trusting of others, are merely sometimes projecting [some of] our own lack of trust-worthiness, on to others.

And, of course, we’re all aware that sometime the glass is s neither half full, nor half empty - it may, sometimes, be twice as large, as need be.

You win at the -stringing cliches together - contest. Unfortunately, none substitute for common sense.