Firing a gun on Lake Ontario

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Ok, I find this thread so alarming that I did some research. In the state of Michigan there are rules for carrying a gun and rules for storage of same on land. There are separate rules for carrying a firearm on a boat. They must be in an "arms locker" with correct permits. There are certain shoreline buffer zones (usually 3 miles) in place that prohibit the discharge of firearms from a boat in Michigan.

All I'm saying is the advise you got from your friendly police officer may not be true.

Why take the risk when you can shoot off your guns at a proper shooting range and not from a boat where you are not only taking on risk but if an accident happens what then.

To me this falls under the category of careless boating practice.

All I'm saying is that you are making stuff up, posting it online in CF as fact, and rendering your personal credibility appropriately.

[appick]

Yes but I also have a CCP so I can carry my gun loaded and on my persons so... If you think that's scary I can drive down the highway in a moving vehicle that I am driving with my weapon loaded! Now that's scary! I'm not a huge gun wacko ect I just enjoy shooting and sailing so I thought I'd chime in. I've combined the two in the past and that's what was asked. I guess your DNR officer didn't have all the facts my police friends did no biggie.

As far as an accident and careless boating. We always shoot from a seated position and we only do this on calm days. Oh also we observe at least the 3 miles offshore. We don't usually sail all that close to shore anyways. That's where 90% of the power boaters cruise and we just find it better to stay out of the heavy traffic zones. We always shoot from a seated position on board. There is always risk when sailing. I'd say my odds far more likely to fall overboard than shoot myself. I don't let anyone inexperienced with fire arms shoot my weapons. If you want to learn go take a class. I understand it's not for every one but that doesn't mean what I'm doing is illegal. Sure it might not be popular for others on here but oh well! It also doesn't mean it's unduly unsafe or dangerous.

[appick]

Cool as long as we agree it's your opinion we are good. You are more than entitled to it and I can understand why you would think that.

[Neeltje]

I don't see why popping clay pigeons with a 12-guage out in the middle of the lake would be issue, but be ware.

Even here in Florida, where you can "stand your ground" and pop your wife in your living room if you so much as think she's threatening you, chances are you'll still probably end up doing time for "firing a weapon in an urban environment", "displaying a firearm with intent", "endangering the life of others", etc.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Neeltje

I don't see why popping clay pigeons with a 12-guage out in the middle of the lake would be issue, but be ware.

Even here in Florida, where you can "stand your ground" and pop your wife in your living room if you so much as think she's threatening you, chances are you'll still probably end up doing time for "firing a weapon in an urban environment", "displaying a firearm with intent", "endangering the life of others", etc.

Not to mention polluting a lake with broken , or more likely full clays. Not nice really

But hey I've shot clays out over water , mah...

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[appick]

As to urban environments I would never think of it. That's just asking for trouble but when your 5 plus miles offshore and more than 20 miles from a town/ village let alone an urban area it's not a big deal.

As to the clays the ones we use are just the unpainted clay variety. I see no problem throwing clay into the lake. There is plenty of clay in the lake already as sediment. It isn't like it chokes out coral up here ! And hey most of the are broken... From what I can see anyways!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not to mention polluting a lake with broken , or more likely full clays. Not nice really

But hey I've shot clays out over water , mah...

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would be more concerned about pollution from the lead in the shot than pollution from the clay. Unless of course you're shooting one of the nontoxic replacements.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by appick

Oh also I guess I shouldn't shoot in the woods while hunting either. After all without licensing or a gun range there is no safe way to shoot a fire arm right?!? (Sarcasm)
I shoot all the time at friends houses and in farm fields contrary to your apparent beliefs it is possible to safely handle and discharge fire arms out side of a gun range. There wouldn't be much point in having one if those were the only places you could shoot them.

A gun range or gun club is a lot more safe than hunting in the woods. I would imagine it is rare if ever that someone has been accidentally killed at a gun range where there are hunters killed every year hunting.

[appick]

Right and sailing is more dangerous than staying at the dock. However I'll still go sailing, and I still go in the woods to hunt, so it's all about managing risk I guess.

As far as the lead goes the Coast Guard and US Navy still go out and practice with 50 and 30 cal machine guns on Lake Michigan at least twice per yer that I know of. I'd hate to think how much lead they are throwing! Also see earlier post on coal power plants and the lovely Badger ferry service. Less than 20 rounds of pistol ammo from me isn't going to be doing much. For the shotgun we do use the lead free shot whether we are shooting clays on the water or at the hunting cabin, and friends homes. It just makes sense.

[appick]

I'll probably take the other posters advice and get a pellet pistol as ammo is getting to pricey anyways!

Motten when you served were you a police officer or an equivilent to a DNR officer in Canada? Or where you in the Armed services?

[valhalla360]

I think this thread needs a reset. A lot of folks wandering off topic and making assumptions not consistent with the original question:
- The OP was talking way off shore (say 5 miles) no other boats in sight. We aren't talking about firing a long range rifle at a crowded beach from 50 yds off shore. So the odds of hitting someone are negligible.
- I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he isn't an idiot and between his GPS and charts, he won't accidentally drift into Canada (he's from NY). So Canadian law is not relevant.
- I will also give him the benfit of the doubt that it's a calm day out and he's not trying to shoot while 8' waves are washing over the boat.
- Lead shot is an issue related to waterfowl hunting. Often done over shallow marshland where birds can easily ingest shot if it's only in a foot or two of water. 5 Miles offshore, he's likely in deep enough water that birds won't be able to get to it and it is such a small quanity, we are talking about, it is irrelevant to the discussion.
- On a related note, waterfowl hunting from boats is common place, so the idea you can't hunt from a boat is not correct. Again, I will give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he isn't launching the boat off waves driving with one hand and single handing a 12 guage with the other.

When you consider the point of the OP, it's pretty safe and unlikely to result in any issues. The biggest issue I could see is if an overly officious officer decides he is going to find a reason to ticket you, he could claim you are dumping refuse (spent shot or clay pigeons) which is illegal.

While I don't have any real desire to do it, assuming the guy isn't an idiot, there should be little risk both in terms of safety or getting ticketed.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by appick

I'll probably take the other posters advice and get a pellet pistol as ammo is getting to pricey anyways!

Motten when you served were you a police officer or an equivilent to a DNR officer in Canada? Or where you in the Armed services?

A police officer for 10 years. Now an engineer as that is what I was educated in.

Just want to be clear here. I carried a gun for 10 years. Fired off many different weapons, and was on the shooting team. I don't have a gun now and don't have any interest in guns. I would not go on someone's boat if knowingly they had a gun. I would not be impressed if I was out sailing and heard gun shots. Having said that I do respect that other are of different opinions and rights. A previous poster suggested that I was making up rules to suit me however, I have come across conflicting rules concerning the discharge of firearms from a vessel on Lake Michigan. So for me the jury is still out in answering the OPs question correctly.

Its all about risk vs enjoyment. I believe you can enjoy your hobby with less risk in a better environment than from the deck of your boat out on the lake.

You mentioned that you are more likely to fall off your boat than shoot yourself. Is there then not more risk in carrying a gun while on your moving boat than on stable ground?

Even if I were a gun enthusiast I would not engage in any firearms activity while sailing. You are entitled to do what you think is best for you and as mentioned I am not so sure if it is or is not legal.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by mottseng

A previous poster suggested that I was making up rules to suit me however, I have come across conflicting rules concerning the discharge of firearms from a vessel on Lake Michigan. So for me the jury is still out in answering the OPs question correctly.

Please post the link(s) to the conflicting information. Especially, a link saying that a gun safe is required on a US boat. IMO you are making stuff up for reasons I can't understand.

[goboatingnow]

While I don't have any real desire to do it, assuming the guy isn't an idiot, there should be little risk both in terms of safety or getting ticketed.

I don't think you can really make that claim, firstly there is no clear "backstop", secondly there is the serious issues of water and ricochets. furthermore there is the issue that the water ( unlike say in the woods during hunting season) is not perceived as a common place to experience firearms activity and people can unwittingly put themselves in harms way .

Im not arguing against the OP, but on balance, I fail to see the need to engage in that particular activity , legal or not. There are plenty places to go and discharge firearms to your hearts content.

Dave

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Please post the link(s) to the conflicting information. Especially, a link saying that a gun safe is required on a US boat. IMO you are making stuff up for reasons I can't understand.

For recreational boaters, piracy often seems as remote as Somalia – where four cruisers were killed following the hijacking of the Quest, a 58-foot sailing vessel. Certainly the crew of four aboard the Joe Cool never suspected that their minutes were numbered and tragedy – as opposed to Bimini – would be their destination as the 47-foot sportfisher slipped out of its Miami slip one sunny September afternoon.
The hijackers, with a 9mm in their duffle bag and a ruse about their girfriends waiting for them in Bimini with their passports, convinced the crew to accept the $4,000 charter and head out. Little did the crew know that one of their passengers was a fugitive fleeing for Cuba to escape a child molestation investigation and an Arkansas felony charge relating to a $92,000 Wal-Mart robbery.
Miami mariners have an indelible memory of this tradgedy and others. While federal laws make it a federal crime to bring a dangerous weapon aboard a vessel without previously obtaining the permission of the owner or master of the vessel, only with extreme vigilance, including the physical examination of bags and the searching of pas
Now, with summer here and gun control laws making national headlines, vessel security is on the mind of boat owners and crews. But the laws surrounding protection of your vessel are confusing and change as your vessel passes from coastal waters past the demarcation line into international waters and then into a foreign port.
Federal law allows the transport of weapons in vessels if they are unloaded, rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. Under these conditions, no permit is required. As you transgress Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia waters, while the laws are “generally similar” (with some variations and exceptions while fishing or hunting), in most states gun laws that apply to boats often follow similar rules which apply to vehicles. These states’ laws also prohibit a convicted felon from possessing a firearm under any circumstances.
But, if you are taking a firearm aboard as a concealed weapon, then you must have a concealed weapons permit. According to Carli Segelson, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission public information coordinator, “While Florida permits the use or possession of a firearm while engaged in fishing, camping, or hunting or going to or from lawful hunting, fishing, camping expeditions, if you are simply pleasure boating, you may carry a concealed weapon if you have the appropriate permit.
“If you do not have a concealed weapons permit, a firearm may be on your vessel as long as it is stored in the same manner as it would be if in a vehicle (private conveyance), provided that you are not in a federal park or refuge,” she added. “It is always wise to advise any law enforcement officer that you are carrying a weapon or have a weapon on your vessel.”
U.S. Residents traveling with firearms are reminded to register it with U.S. Customs and Border Protection on a form 4457 prior to taking it out of the U.S. You will need to present the firearm in person to a CBP officer in order to register it. When you re-enter the U.S., a signed CF 4457 is proof that you did not acquire the firearm abroad. If you have the original receipt for a firearm purchased in the U.S., this can be used in lieu of the form to demonstrate that it is American goods returned.
Should your cruising include the Bahamas, that country’s law permits firearms aboard your vessel as part of your ship’s equipment, but they must be declared (including the ammunition count) and stay aboard the vessel in a secure compartment at all times. In the event your boat is boarded by customs or the Royal Bahamas Defense Force, the information on your cruising permit will be checked carefully against your actual supply and ammunition must match the number on the cruising permit.
The U.S. Department of Transportation Maritime Administration and U.S. Coast Guard have focused on improving the self-awareness and self-defense capabilities of the commercial shipping industry, and recreational boaters should consider doing so as well. The maritime industry and the International Maritime Organization have established self defense standards for commercial vessels transiting piracy risky regions, and recreational vessel owners should also develop a self-defense plan. If you intend to carry a firearm aboard your vessel, verify the latest gun laws for your specific state and any other areas you travel. All states have this information readily available to boaters on both permitting and boating requirement websites.
If a weapon is carried, boaters should implement plans for proper permitting and securing of weapons aboard and proper training in the use of your weapons for all aboard. If you operate a charter, you should have written permission to inspect all bags and include a boarding procedure which includes checking all passenger’s thoroughly for weapons.
Capt. Robert L. Gardana is a licensed U.S.C.G. master and practicing attorney for over 30 years and may be reached at Gardanalaw@gmail.com (website: Robert L. Gardana, P.A. | Attorney at law).