USA Federal Documented question

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

...on some clearly visible interior structural part of the HULL."

Hmmm. Now that I read this, I wonder how particular they are about it being on the hull, and not attached to a bulkhead? I've seen the documentation numbers attached to a bulkhead, rather than the hull, on quite a few boats. I've also seen it attached to a part of the deck-house, which I would think is technically not a part of the "hull." So, again, things that make you go "hmmm."

[rwidman]

The requirement, as worded, is pretty stupid because it doesn't say where the numbers are to be attached. Also, there's no reason a person couldn't install something (cabinet, tool box, etc.) over the location of the removed numbers.

All this aside, you can use your imagination on how and where to apply the numbers. Mine are engraved into a piece of wood that is glued to a stringer in the bilge. The PO did it. There's no reason numbers from the hardware or marine store couldn't be epoxied somewhere and then covered with clear epoxy.

BTW: I was boarded by the CG not too long ago and they did not ask to see the numbers. They did check my documentation document though.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Robin3

So clearly visible but hidden in the engine compartment then. I need to hunt inside every locker , yet again ( except most are lined with foam backed vinyl) as well as under every floorboard plus in the anchor locker (on deck) and inside lazarettes. If I still cannot find the original numbers if they ever existed then the newly purchased plaque will go on a visible cabin bulkhead fitted with some anti-theft screws and a decent blob of epoxy glue.

From Becky's post:
"interior structural part of the hull"

So does a bulkhead qualify as a structural part of the hull?

Edit: I see someone else had the same question.

Both boats I'm familiar with have numbers (vinyl?) on the hull near the transom in the lazarette coated with clear epoxy. You have to empty a fair bit of the lazarette to see the number.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

I think if you can remove the engine cover and they can see it, it's clearly visible. If you have to unload a locker and/or remove hull liner then that would not seem to meet the definition of clearly visible. I would say if you can't find it after all this looking then it either isn't there, or doesn't meet the definition of clearly visible.

Ours is currently on a plaque in the quarter berth area, behind the nav table, glued and screwed to the hull. However when I looked up that definition for you I realized that we don't have the required No. in front of the numbers. (Put there by previous owner.) So, now I am wondering.... I think I had better give the vessel documentation office a call and see how big an issue this is.

WE have a center cockpit and the companionway steps hinge up to allow access to the engine room space but the only places not covered by soundproofing would be under the floor panels covering two battery banks or underneath the engine, requiring it's removal first!

But I'm not trying to 'hide anything away, just to comply with the requirements of documentation. We could have chosen to un-document the boat when we purchased and go the simpler State route, which at least would allow me to have my name on the title as a non-American. however we plan to cruise father than just around the local pond and go out to the islands where having a federal documented vessel might make things a little easier. We might at some stage even go for a temporary foray to Europe (via a ship) where it definitely would.

For clarification re the Denverdon reply above, we do have Florida State registration for both the big boat and the RIB in terms of having the titles registered and paying the annual taxes are concerned. the RIB has State numbers on the tubes and both boats have in-date decals attached and o course the reg papers are on board each as required for if we get inspected

All of which does get my simple Brit mind in a spin but I AM trying to do things by the book and hopefully will get there eventually.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Just a point of terminology, in the spirit of clear communication...

Your boat is not federally "registered" and it doesn't have federal "registration" numbers. It is federally "documented." In the U.S. we say that states "register" boats and the USCG "documents" them (and issues "documentation" numbers).

It is pretty clear that you understand the difference, but there are a lot of people who don't, and who get confused when others talk about "documenting" their boat in a state, or "registering" it with the USCG. So, I hope you don't feel like I'm nit-picking. I'm just trying to avoid having this thread confuse others who do NOT understand the difference.

Well-said, I'm glad you clarified that! To add one small point, if it's US documented you do NOT put any numbers on the forward exterior of the hull. The state may require you to display a sticker indicating you paid your tax, but never any state registration numbers.

And while we're on the subject, the name and hailing port as shown on your documentation need to be visible outside in characters 4" or more high.

Now I think we've covered everything.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Robin,

Really simple... Anywhere on the boat that is part of the permanent structure... Any method where it would be "obvious" if it were removed...

The easy access thing is for you... not to be a pain if ever asked to see it... (I have not) and B) not to piss off a coastie/DHS when it takes you 10 min to uncover it...

[zeehag]

even structural bulkheads are removable. they want and demand it non removable.
this demand is only to help you when your damnboat is stolen, as the removal will make a big difference and is obvious.
the harder your documentation number is to remove, the better it is for you.
yes boats do get stolen.
they also become sunk or destroyed and hard to identify without a GOOD well placed identification.

[SVTwilight]

On a previous boat, we took a piece of oak and I "engraved" the numbers on with a drill, then screwed it to a bulkhead, which subsequently passed inspection without comment. As people are saying, nothing fancy required. On our current boat someone laid the numbers against the hull and then used clear epoxy over them which was a nice touch.

IIRC, you are supposed to carry the ORIGINAL documentation certificate on the boat. What we do instead is keep several color copies, one in a plastic sleeve in the nav station. They look very original and have never been questioned.

[Robin3]

We have a plaque like this now, but in white plastic with black engraved lettering. http://http://www.documentedvessel.c...FQQQ7AodFzcAtg

I'm about to go to the boat and do yet another search for the numbers that should have been applied by the previous and original owner. This time I will check on deck lazarettes, another locker in the after cabin thatopens into the transom space where an aircon is mounted. If I still cannot find it then the new plaque will be mounted on a structural athwartships bulkhead, in plain sight, screwed in place with some clear epoxy over the screw heads.

We are having a voluntary CG safety check soon so will see the reaction of the auxiliary coastie at least then, worst case is another rethink after that.
Thanks to all

PS we have original documents on board in my navigator briefcase and an extra colour copy laminated for protection from damage/damp is kept under the chart table just in case.

[Cheechako]

You can buy those vinyl stick on house numbers, put them on the glass in the cockpit locker or anywhere convenient. Then put one layer of thin fiberglass/resin over them so they show through.
Check all lockers, beams etc.... the numbers may already be there in some hidden place. Check under floor boards on a cross beam also.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Hmmm. Now that I read this, I wonder how particular they are about it being on the hull, and not attached to a bulkhead? I've seen the documentation numbers attached to a bulkhead, rather than the hull, on quite a few boats. I've also seen it attached to a part of the deck-house, which I would think is technically not a part of the "hull." So, again, things that make you go "hmmm."

I would think that if a bulkhead is tabbed to the hull it becomes permanent and structural. If it's a cabinet door or other structure that can be removed with a screwdriver, probably not structural. I have also taken pictures of my documentation plate inside the boat with as much of the background showing as I could get in and still be able to read the numbers. That way if it is ever removed there would not only be the resulting marks in the boat but also my photo showing that that was the exact location of my plaque with the numbers.

And, by the way, I did call the documentation office and ask them if the fact that the No. was not in front of the numbers on my plaque was an issue and she said it would not be a problem.

[My Bonnie Lass]

Mine is in the easiest accessible forepeak cubby, painted and varnished over on the hull. It is "clearly visible" once you open the cubby, along the same lines as "clearly visible" once you open the engine compartment. I choose to not overload that cubby with things to ensure a USCG Auxiliary conducting the inspection could claim it isn't "clearly visible" (Here in the Wash DC area we've been told that the Auxiliary are now conducting the inspections since the USCG have more Law Enforcement and Counter-Terrorism efforts to do).

[Rhapsody-NS27]

I've seen pictures of boats with their Doc number in lots of different places. Some are easy to see as soon as you walk into a boat and others you may have to look for like in the engine room. Mine is engraved on a piece of wood attached to the bulkhead in the sail/anchor locker. Just need to open a door and it's easily seen.

[fjwiley1]

Robin3....if you haven't gotten down to the boat....stop the search....apply your " No's" as required. If you can't find them "easily visible' it"s doubtful the Coast Guard will . You have the required "Doc's" to support Your numbers.

Remember, life is Good if you Keepa Smilin.....

[Robin3]

Well just returned after a very thorough search that did not locate any numbers. Have looked under all floors in all lockers, on all places there is any access to the hull mouldindgs, in the engine room, but I didn't remove the battery banks to look under them. On my way I collected the new sign plate I ordered yesterday, which is a neat plate with black background and white lettering reading USCG Documentation on top line and 'NO. 1068489' in 3 " high letter underneath. I'm going to drill the corners to take some countersunk head screws and will screw this onto the main athwartships bulkead in the main cabin just ahead of the mast support strut. This bulkhead is structural in as much as it is fitted into the hull during build albeit that it is held in position by grooves in the internal moulding/liner and sealed to that with Sikaflex or somesuch similar sealant. I will drill the screwheads after mounting to destroy the cross head grooves and make it so that a screwdriver will not fit, possibly then covering those screws and nearby plate with some clear epoxy glue as well.

Otherwise it will be back to playing golf and ditch the boat.