Question about COLREGS rule 9

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by StuM

From Post #5: "There was nothing preventing the other boat from keeping from the correct side of the channel. They were on a broad reach. As I said, they eventually altered course to avoid collision."

I missed the broad reach part, so thanks. Stiil i don't have a clear picture of the situation, or if there was a possible reason why the offending sailboat did what it did.

Oh dear, that phrase again

There is no such thing as "yield" or "right of way" or any other right under COLREGs ( just one specific "right of way" situation under the US Inland Rules)

The sound of a hair splitting. C'mon, I think you know what I was saying - that colregs and convention would suggest that those boats should not have impeded me if they had the room to keep clear. As you might guess, i did the necessary to ensure that there was no collision, regardless of who the burdened vessel was. I didn't even flip the bird.

[Snore]

Many people confuse “Stand on”with “right of way”.

I would rather be Give Way in most crossing. I can go wherever I want EXCEPT to impede the other vessel. The STAND ON is obligated to “stand on” by holding heading and speed- as best as possible (don’t luff or suddenly trim for speed). If the other vessel in your situation was changing headings, he was not standing on.

Like others said, also a good time to use the VHF or give a 1 or 2 whistle signal. He probably wouldn’t have answered, but at least I try.

[Jim Cate]

He probably wouldn’t have answered, but at least I try.

Overheard in the cockpit of the sailing vessel:"Keerist... those AH motoring guys are not only not getting out of my way, now they are bloody HONKING at me!"

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The sound of a hair splitting. C'mon, I think you know what I was saying - that colregs and convention would suggest that those boats should not have impeded me if they had the room to keep clear. As you might guess, i did the necessary to ensure that there was no collision, regardless of who the burdened vessel was. I didn't even flip the bird.

Sorry, but it's not hair splitting. Every time someone quotes "right of way" (and "privilege" for that matter) in one of these posts it reinforces a very dangerous misconception held by many less experienced sailors that one vessel has a "right" to do as he chooses including sailing across a narrow channel in front of another vessel because he is under sail and it is up to everyone else to keep out of his way regardless.



I have no doubt that the skipper of the sailing vessel under discussion had this misconception.


I will continue to correct this bad terminology every time it comes up here.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by StuM

Sorry, but it's not hair splitting. Every time someone quotes "right of way" (and "privilege" for that matter) in one of these posts it reinforces a very dangerous misconception held by many less experienced sailors that one vessel has a "right" to do as he chooses including sailing across a narrow channel in front of another vessel because he is under sail and it is up to everyone else to keep out of his way regardless.



I have no doubt that the skipper of the sailing vessel under discussion had this misconception.


I will continue to correct this bad terminology every time it comes up here.

Another way to understand the consept is "Stand on" being passive and give way "active" role in the dance.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by StuM

I will continue to correct this bad terminology every time it comes up here.

Please continue to do so, Stu

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Please continue to do so, Stu

+1

[Juho]

One problem that I'd like to point out is the difference between racing and colregs based regular traffic. In racing it is typical that you go as close to the other boats as you dare, in the hope that you could force them to yield under the racing rules. Under colregs this kind of game of chicken, fighting for your "rights", and trying to be the first at some spot, is totally unacceptable. Sometimes the masculine hormones and competitive attitude may play a trick on you.

Under colregs one should make decisions and moves early, avoid boats getting too close to each other, and avoid situations where it is not clear how things will evolve. Any increased risk of collision should be avoided. It is too common that people fight for their "rights" just because they feel that the other guy must be wrong. The correct way is not to be right but to avoid collisions. Often it makes sense to change course before you even become the stand-on vessel (and are supposed to maintain your course).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Juho

Often it makes sense to change course before you even become the stand-on vessel (and are supposed to maintain your course).

Very true. COLREGs is basically about when "risk of collision exists".


A prudent sailor will try to take action before that arises.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Another way to understand the consept is "Stand on" being passive and give way "active" role in the dance.

Colregs might be easier to learn and teach if they would use those words (passive and active role). That could mean less confusion with the "right of way" thinking and more focus on the idea of eliminating the risk of collisions.

[hiebert]

The basic rule in COLREGS to follow is stated in Rule 18 para(a)- The power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of NUC vsls, sailing vessels etc. So you can have pass him port to port OR stbd to stbd. But it is your duty to keep clear of a sailing vessel.

The sailing vessel proceeding on the wrong side of the channel is a mistake, but it is a minor mistake. Meaning if there was a collision, you in the power driven vessel will take most of the blame.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by hiebert

The basic rule in COLREGS to follow is stated in Rule 18 para(a)- The power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of NUC vsls, sailing vessels etc. So you can have pass him port to port OR stbd to stbd. But it is your duty to keep clear of a sailing vessel.

........

Rubbish, NUC means Not Under Command; it has nothing to do with a sailing vessel underway.

[Empty Pockets]

Originally Posted by hiebert

The basic rule in COLREGS to follow is stated in Rule 18 para(a)- The power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of NUC vsls, sailing vessels etc. So you can have pass him port to port OR stbd to stbd. But it is your duty to keep clear of a sailing vessel.

The sailing vessel proceeding on the wrong side of the channel is a mistake, but it is a minor mistake. Meaning if there was a collision, you in the power driven vessel will take most of the blame.

Wrong. The very first words in Rule 18 are “Except when rule 9”. Narrow channel changes everything.

[stnick]

You did the correct thing ! Its a channel not open water. Give them the horn. !!! Until they back away ! Let them scream !!!

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by stnick

You did the correct thing ! Its a channel not open water. Give them the horn. !!! Until they back away ! Let them scream !!!

Forcing the issue puts you in the wrong. If there was a collision and you saw it coming but did not take any action to avoid it you are wrong.