Question about COLREGS rule 9

[StuM]

Originally Posted by markstansfield

This is a tough one experienced many times in the Norfolk broads (uk). The sailing boat is tacking up the river (Chanel or space) and the motor boat (or sailboat under engine comes the other way), what to do? The sailboat is basically doing what it can do, and as long as the motor boat isn’t flying any day shapes might reasonably expect it to keep clear, and as another sailboat skipper why wouldn’t you as long as you could?

Day shapes are irrelevant in a narrow channel.


The sailboat actually has more freedom of movement than the powerboat. It can tack to either side at any time. The powerboat is restricted to staying on one edge of the river/channel. It's up to the sailboat to time his tacks so that he is on the correct side of the channel when passing another vessel - even if this means doing a couple of short tacks.

[Tillsbury]

Absolutely. If I'm sailing (tacking) up a river or other narrow channel, I'll keep to "my half" of the channel, unless I can clearly see that I won't be in anyone's way by going over to the other side for a longer tack.

Anyone tacking up a channel is doing it for fun, and throwing in some extra tacks is hardly a problem...

[KiwiKen]

Originally Posted by StuM

Day shapes are irrelevant in a narrow channel.


The sailboat actually has more freedom of movement than the powerboat. It can tack to either side at any time. The powerboat is restricted to staying on one edge of the river/channel. It's up to the sailboat to time his tacks so that he is on the correct side of the channel when passing another vessel - even if this means doing a couple of short tacks.

A sailing vessel must give way to a power driven vessel that can only navigate within the confines of the buoyed channel.


This is similar to the rule where a yacht on starboard tack cannot enforce their right of way if the port tack yacht does not have the water to give way, eg a sailing dinghy with a draft of less than a meter v a keel yacht with a draft of 2 metres. I have observed this scenario on several occasions during yacht racing in the Solent in Cowes Week where dinghies racing have moved into the path of keelboats racing close to shore on port tack and the dinghies have been on starboard.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by StuM

I will continue to correct this bad terminology every time it comes up here.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

We were motoring down a narrow channel in our 40’ sailboat the other day (6’ draft) when we met a vessel under sail, going the other way. They were going down the center of the channel, veering toward our side. I move over to starboard as much as I dared, but they were headed right for us. I slowed down as much as I could, while keeping steerage way, but still they came on, gesturing angrily for us to get out of their way. By this time, we were too close for me to turn to port, to cross their bow, and pass them starboard to starboard, so I just had to hold my course.

At the last minute, they altered course to avoid collision, and passed us port to port, while calling us foul names and informing us that sail has priority over power.

This wasn’t a race or anything. They were just asserting their ‘rights’. However, even at the time I didn’t think their rights were that absolute, so I looked it up.

9. Narrow channels

• A vessel proceeding along a narrow channel must keep to starboard.
• Small vessels or sailing vessels must not impede (larger) vessels which can navigate only within a narrow channel.
• Ships must not cross a channel if to do so would impede another vessel which can navigate only within that channel.

Was I wrong, or am I obliged to run aground outside a channel just because a sailboat won’t give way?

No, you were absolutely not wrong.


What you encountered was a fairly common case of sailors who believe that they have "right of way" when under sail, with respect to vessels under power, which is utterly false and unseamanlike. It is false according to the letter of the COLREGS and it is false as a matter of seamanship. On top of that, they were obviously ignorant of their obligations under Rule 9, which you correctly think is applicable to this situation.


The way the Rules treat a situation like this is as follows:


1. In the first place, they are obligated to "not impede" you. That is, not create the situation in the first place.


2. Failing that, you ARE the give way vessel (believe it or not). However, that does NOT indeed give them "right of way". They are rather, the STAND ON VESSEL, which is very different from having way. It means that they are supposed to hold their course and speed so that you can get around them. Tacking around willy nilly doing whatever they want, is NOT standing on.


3. And it sound like you did everything you could, anyway -- you slacked speed at least.


4. Seeing that your actions were not adequate to avoid a collision -- and it does NOT matter why -- in the event probably you simply did what you could, but even if you just failed to do anything for no good reason -- they are OBLIGATED to take action themselves, and not at the last second, but in good time. That is their OBLIGATION -- and all of our obligation, as the stand-on vessel.


5. The aggressive behavior is profoundly unseamanlike. Unfortunately one sees it a lot among racers and small boat sailors who have an incorrect concept of what the collision avoidance rules mean, and lack basic seamanship.



The seamanship issue is this -- when two vessels cross, it is everyone's job to prevent a collision, no less than stand-on vessel's, than the give-way vessel's. Real seaman (as opposed to these testosterone-infused boy racers) have a different attitude -- they are doing this job together and both are looking for the same result -- a safe crossing. They work together and do it. If one vessel doesn't or cannot make the maneuver alone, then the other vessel cheerfully does whatever is needed. Furthermore, they handle their vessels in a manner which does not create acute situations in the first place. Once there is a risk of collision, and for what reason is not important, there can be no thought of "rights" and no feelings of aggression -- it's all total concentration on unwinding the situation and creating a safe crossing. If someone does something really daft -- you can complain later. But during the crossing the only thought is to unwind it safely.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

Day shapes are irrelevant in a narrow channel.


The sailboat actually has more freedom of movement than the powerboat. It can tack to either side at any time. The powerboat is restricted to staying on one edge of the river/channel. It's up to the sailboat to time his tacks so that he is on the correct side of the channel when passing another vessel - even if this means doing a couple of short tacks.

Indeed. CBD, and the corresponding day shape, has nothing to do with Rule 9.



Rule 9 was invented for this very kind of situation. It obligates everyone to recognize the issues which arise when a vessel is navigating in a channel and can't maneuver outside of it to do collision avoidance. It's kind of elementary and obvious that you can't expect a vessel to do what it cannot do -- maneuver into water too shallow for it -- in order to unwind a risk of collision, and you are obligated to prevent that kind of thing from arising in the first place. That's what Rule 9 means.

[KiwiKen]

"when two vessels cross, it is everyone's job to prevent a collision, no less than stand-on vessel's, than the give-way vessel's."


Precisely, being the stand on vessel does not give one right of way irrespective, and if a collision occurs and it can be shown that the stand on vessel could have taken action to avoid a collision then they will be found to have contributory fault in relation to the collision, which can have insurance liability implications, unlike in a motor vehicle collision.


2 factors come into play here,

a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing
and
common sense is frequently not all that common.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by KiwiKen

A sailing vessel must give way to a power driven vessel that can only navigate within the confines of the buoyed channel.

Actually, they "must not impede" which is rather different to "give way".

This is similar to the rule where a yacht on starboard tack cannot enforce their right of way if the port tack yacht does not have the water to give way,

Once again, please do not use the words "right of way". There is no such concept in COLREGs and using it gives a false impression to less knowledgeable readers. And there is certainly no provision for a vessel to "enforce" anything. Both vessels have obligations to act in according with the Regulations.

And there is no such rule in COLREGs. Are you perhaps thinking about the Racing Rules of Sailing Rules 19 and 20 concerning giving room at an obstruction? If so, that only applies to boats racing.

[KiwiKen]

Originally Posted by StuM

Actually, they "must not impede" which is rather different to "give way".


Once again, please do not use the words "right of way". There is no such concept in COLREGs and using it gives a false impression to less knowledgeable readers. And there is certainly no provision for a vessel to "enforce" anything. Both vessels have obligations to act in according with the Regulations.

And there is no such rule in COLREGs. Are you perhaps thinking about the Racing Rules of Sailing Rules 19 and 20 concerning giving room at an obstruction? If so, that only applies to boats racing.

I agree with you, but the concept to many is that if they are the stand on vessel they have "right of way" and that sail has precedence over power in all situations which is not correct.


With reference to sailing rules 19 & 20, when one has two fleets in different races interacting, which is not uncommon in Cowes week where Offshore keel yachts can hug the Isle of Wight shore to keep out of an adverse tide in light wind conditions with perhaps as little as 1 metre or less under the keel, and a dinghy class in a separate race will mix it with the larger yachts and claim starboard priority, over the larger yachts when these boats cannot react without risk of grounding. The air can be quite blue with exchange of oaths and advice on sex and travel.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

. . . All I'm saying is that if there -WERE- a collision, and -IF- it resulted in a USCG incident investigation, and -IF- the OP then brought up that he was constrained by draft, I suspect that the incident investigator's very next question would have been the same as mine -- "Were you displaying the proper day shape?" -- and the OP would have to answer "no.". ..

The OP didn't say anything about being constrained by draft -- CBD. Rule 9 is a different principle, and no day shape is involved.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

The channel was maybe 100-150 ft wide? Plenty of room for both of us. There were no other boats in sight.

Doesn't sound like the OP was impeded. The other boat broke rule 9(a).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Doesn't sound like the OP was impeded. The other boat broke rule 9(a).

"I move over to starboard as much as I dared, but they were headed right for us. I slowed down as much as I could, while keeping steerage way,"

Had to alter course and speed. Sure sounds like impeded to me!

[Lodesman]

Plenty of room to alter to port - not impeded.