Poll for Professional Masters and Mates (over 500 tonnes)

[chrisr]

from my perspective and experience, for collision avoidance i'd say AIS is the greatest invention since sliced bread. eliminates all worries about seeing nav lights, poor radar return etc.

should be compulsory for all craft !

cheers,

[Lepke]

If everybody follows the rules, it make it easy. Vessels required to give way should do it early enough and obviously enough so the other knows your intention. Just because your vessel may have the right of way doesn't relieve you of responsibility.
In ships, USN, and tugs, the only problems I had with boats were channels where I had few choices and outside Asian ports with a lot of fishing boats.

In the navy, I was on a destroyer that hit and sunk an Asian fishing boat. We saved the crew. They were running parallel to our course and as we passed them, they turned to cross our bow. Later a pilot told us it was a superstition. They believed devils hung off the stern of all vessels, bringing bad luck. As time passes, more devils are added. If you can cut across someone's bow, he takes your devils and adds them to his own. The closer you cut it the better (in theory).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think this Visibility concern from a small boat perspective is worth reviewing as it seems to affect MartinR's mindset which is a common fear of most small boat operators .

So how would I manage this concern from my own yacht?

Use AIS/ active transponder
Upgrade to 6nm nav lights
If starting to have doubts, shine
your spotlight repeatedly on the headsail.
Still concerned, call on VHF to confirm intentions.
With sufficient time, take evasive action acording to the rules with use of engine if necessary

Most commercial bridges are fitted with S band radars, so we can tune our sea and rain clutter more easily to see small targets.

don't worry, if the WK is doing his job, he will see you

Regarding the visibility aspect..
I was delivering a Lagoon 420 from Ft Lauderdale to Gib a couple of years back and Easterly winds pushed me higher than in the past.. 3 days of ESE 25kts and gusting had pushed me ENE of Bermuda around 39*N.. the night it cleared around 2am I spotted a ship heading E, checked him on AIS and gave him a shout on the VHF, after 2 weeks out and Easterlies so far N & W I asked him for a weather report if he'd be so kind..
He called back to ask my position as he could not see me on AIS.. by this time he was maybe 3 miles SW of me so I turned all the lights on and told him I was at 10 o clock of his port bow.. a few minutes later he came back and said he had me on his radar and then gave me the weather for the next 24 hours.. winds picking up again F 3 occasionally 4.. Easterly
The seas had eased as we had hit the edge of a high pressure belt that was going NE so conditions were slight with maybe 4kts of wind.
Its not the first time being visible has been a problem.. F6 just to the NW of Ushant on a 21ft Corribee was worse.. was chatting with a ship till he was 600m away before he saw my lights.. and I was telling him where to look.
If you get/have AIS make sure it's 2 way..

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Curious why you think that? Just from the few who've posted or polled, we've got worldwide representation.

Perhaps you're right. I'm feeling US, Canada and Europe. Who is from anywhere in Asia, the South Pacific (excluding Australia and New Zealand), South America, Africa, Russia, the Middle East......? The reason I say this is that COLREGS basically don't exist in many places. Indonesia, for example. See post #47 for a pretty standard mindset that prevails there above any written system. The first time that happened to me it scared the *&#@ out of me. I actually put out a securite message on ch. 16 about a vessel acting suspiciously because I was concerned about the possibility of piracy and wanted someone else to know what was going on. But it didn't take long for me to learn the 'local colregs' and anticipate such maneuvres. It sounds like the captain of the US Navy Destroyer in #47 didn't get that.

You hear it so frequently on the radio when traversing the shipping lanes around Jakarta or Bali - European ships imploring the Indonesian freighters to follow COLREGS. It makes me wince every time because 1) the freighter captains dont speak English and 2) they have probably never heard of COLREGS. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is a reality that in many places COLREGS are more of a suggestion than an established set of rules.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Trond123

Martin, as I read your post, it appears you want recreational vessels to actually follow the Colregs.

I want them to get out of my way early so that situations do not arise. After that, of course, yes.

Do you have a "rule of thumb" suggestion for what you see as the range at which they should start keeping course and speed?

20 minutes, about.

If you don't mind me asking, what and where do you "drive" professionally?

25000DWT tanker mostly in Europe, a lot in confined waters.

Use AIS/ active transponder

Yes, but not certain your AIS is visible for a longer distance, but the chances are good. AIS is a big upgrade for visibility of sailboats.

Upgrade to 6nm nav lights

I think the COLREGs are a disaster regarding nav lights for sailboats. White lights are much easier to see than red or green. Strobes are extremely visible, like some of the french fishing boats use. Why not make use of it?

Most commercial bridges are fitted with S band radars, so we can tune our sea and rain clutter more easily to see small targets.

Rain clutter at least. But fiberglass yachts do not show up well anyhow. Metal is good, Traditional built wooden boats show up reasonably.

don't worry, if the WK is doing his job, he will see you

Yes, he will, but often later than he would like to.

In case somebody asks. Personally, I do not have AIS transmitter, RADAR, plotter in the cockpit on my yacht. I think this has mostly to do with the fact that I do not want to take my job to my leisure time. I may come around about AIS in time, who knows.

[Trond123]

Thank you, Martin!
And the "20 minute mark" sounds like a good advice.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Just because your vessel may have the right of way doesn't relieve you of responsibility..

Again? Your vessel never has "right of way" under COLREGs.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Regarding the visibility aspect..
I was delivering a Lagoon 420 from Ft Lauderdale to Gib a couple of years back and Easterly winds pushed me higher than in the past.. 3 days of ESE 25kts and gusting had pushed me ENE of Bermuda around 39*N.. the night it cleared around 2am I spotted a ship heading E, checked him on AIS and gave him a shout on the VHF, after 2 weeks out and Easterlies so far N & W I asked him for a weather report if he'd be so kind..
He called back to ask my position as he could not see me on AIS.. by this time he was maybe 3 miles SW of me so I turned all the lights on and told him I was at 10 o clock of his port bow.. a few minutes later he came back and said he had me on his radar and then gave me the weather for the next 24 hours.. winds picking up again F 3 occasionally 4.. Easterly
The seas had eased as we had hit the edge of a high pressure belt that was going NE so conditions were slight with maybe 4kts of wind.
Its not the first time being visible has been a problem.. F6 just to the NW of Ushant on a 21ft Corribee was worse.. was chatting with a ship till he was 600m away before he saw my lights.. and I was telling him where to look.
If you get/have AIS make sure it's 2 way..

Sounds like maybe the Lagoon's AIS had problems if it was supposed to be 2 way.

As far as Radar, many mates have never learned how to manually Tune a big ISO rated radar, so they leave everything on automatic and filter for a mostly clear screen, which only sees other large ships.

Something I am very fussy about is teaching them how to tune for different conditions and making sure they know how to keep a proper Radar Lookout for all sizes.

On my own sailboat, I will often ask ships if they've got me on radar as a way to wake them up.
If not, They should have![emoji849]

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Sounds like maybe the Lagoon's AIS had problems if it was supposed to be 2 way.

As far as Radar, many mates have never learned how to manually Tune a big ISO rated radar, so they leave everything on automatic and filter for a mostly clear screen, which only sees other large ships.

Something I am very fussy about is teaching them how to tune for different conditions and making sure they know how to keep a proper Radar Lookout for all sizes.

On my own sailboat, I will often ask ships if they've got me on radar as a way to wake them up.
If not, They should have![emoji849]

No.. 90% of boats that have AIS only have a receiver fitted in my experience as opposed to a Transponder.. and those rarities that have two way are usually switched to receive only.
Pirates n all that..

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

Perhaps you're right. I'm feeling US, Canada and Europe. Who is from anywhere in Asia, the South Pacific (excluding Australia and New Zealand), South America, Africa, Russia, the Middle East......? The reason I say this is that COLREGS basically don't exist in many places. Indonesia, for example. See post #47 for a pretty standard mindset that prevails there above any written system. The first time that happened to me it scared the *&#@ out of me. I actually put out a securite message on ch. 16 about a vessel acting suspiciously because I was concerned about the possibility of piracy and wanted someone else to know what was going on. But it didn't take long for me to learn the 'local colregs' and anticipate such maneuvres. It sounds like the captain of the US Navy Destroyer in #47 didn't get that.

You hear it so frequently on the radio when traversing the shipping lanes around Jakarta or Bali - European ships imploring the Indonesian freighters to follow COLREGS. It makes me wince every time because 1) the freighter captains dont speak English and 2) they have probably never heard of COLREGS. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is a reality that in many places COLREGS are more of a suggestion than an established set of rules.

I can't speak for everyone, but Pelagic is Asia-based, and although he didn't vote, ElPinguino sails S America. My own experience is a bit Baskin-Robbins, a little taste of everything. Lots of time in Asian waters, S Pac, bit of Europe, Carib, Indian Ocean, lots of time in the Gulf of Oman/Persian Gulf, E and W coasts N America. I have actually heard that superstition before, but honestly didn't find it that bad around Indonesia - all areas have their peculiarities. Not entirely sure how this affects the question?

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by chrisr

from my perspective and experience, for collision avoidance i'd say AIS is the greatest invention since sliced bread. eliminates all worries about seeing nav lights, poor radar return etc.

should be compulsory for all craft !

cheers,

Yes to the former, no to the latter. In this modern times I do not feel the need that everybody knows at any time where I am. It is enough that the EU reads my emails, that cameras are everywhere, automatic face recognition is used more and more........ . The ocean is one of the few places today with total privacy, and I would like it to remain so.

Voluntary, yes of course, but free to switch on and off. There is no need to regulate everything. And navigation works well without, you just have to adapt. Sail instead of playing the computer game.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by MartinR

I want them to get out of my way early so that situations do not arise. After that, of course, yes.



I think the COLREGs are a disaster regarding nav lights for sailboats. White lights are much easier to see than red or green. Strobes are extremely visible, like some of the french fishing boats use. Why not make use of it?

Thanks for adding your perspective to the discussion. I agree that white light generally appears at a longer range, and agree that if your first sight(visually or by radar) of a vessel occurs inside 3 miles that makes it so much harder to assess the situation and act on it, especially if you're operating a larger tanker. I've mostly been driving highly-manoeuvrable ships, which might explain why I haven't perceived an issue with spotting small boats in time. That's not to say that I haven't had to deal with random suicidal action by small vessels at close range (usually in more confined waters). Unlike most commercial WKs, a good deal of my time was spent driving towards or through large groups of small vessels - fishery patrols, interdiction ops, etc. so I might approach the whole idea from a different philosophical viewpoint.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Yes to the former, no to the latter. In this modern times I do not feel the need that everybody knows at any time where I am. It is enough that the EU reads my emails, that cameras are everywhere, automatic face recognition is used more and more........ . The ocean is one of the few places today with total privacy, and I would like it to remain so.

Voluntary, yes of course, but free to switch on and off. There is no need to regulate everything. And navigation works well without, you just have to adapt. Sail instead of playing the computer game.

i can understand your point of view and personally hate govt intervention of any kind

BUT

at what point does my safety trump your wish for privacy ?

where does social responsibility sit in the equation ?

the world is getting more and more crowded and we need to adapt to change & embrace technology - not fight it.

cheers,

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No.. 90% of boats that have AIS only have a receiver fitted in my experience as opposed to a Transponder.. and those rarities that have two way are usually switched to receive only.
Pirates n all that..

Phil, that just does not seem to be true around Australian waters. More and more small craft are transmitting AIS and I'm all for it.

Your observation might have been true a decade ago... perhaps even a half decade, but them days are gone. Nowadays I doubt if even 10% of boats are fitting rx only AIS. The price differential is pretty small...

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Yes to the former, no to the latter. In this modern times I do not feel the need that everybody knows at any time where I am.
...

Voluntary, yes of course, but free to switch on and off. There is no need to regulate everything. And navigation works well without, you just have to adapt. Sail instead of playing the computer game.

This!


In clear conditions, away from crowded shipping, with a good watch, AIS is not really that important or useful.