Feels like a scam!

[mvmojo]

As the saying goes, "Nothing is free, including lessons!"

[Rayjay3110]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Goodness this discussion again.

1) USCG documentation is 1 year from the date application, not the date of expiration. If you don't want to loose 3 months of fees, don't renew 3 months early. This has been the way it's been for decades and there are 100 threads on the subject.

2) A firm that offers a service to document your vessel for you is not a scam. It's a service. There are many such services, such as name changing services for new brides. Yes, you could document directly with the USCG. Choosing to go with a service doesn't make that service a scam.

Lack of situational awareness also does not make the business a scam. It simply means you are not paying attention to details. Though I'm sure that is their fault, right??

FYI. You can now document your boat for up to five years. I renewed my documentation in 2019 and it is good through 2024.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Shrew

2) A firm that offers a service to document your vessel for you is not a scam. It's a service. There are many such services, such as name changing services for new brides. Yes, you could document directly with the USCG. Choosing to go with a service doesn't make that service a scam.

Lack of situational awareness also does not make the business a scam. It simply means you are not paying attention to details. Though I'm sure that is their fault, right??

Just because something doesn’t fit the dictionary definition of a scam doesn’t mean there is no deception going on. If a large portion of your customers end up feeling deceived, it means you are making money by deceiving people. It’s really that simple.

Most actual scams can be pretty easily spotted too if you know what to look for and are “paying attention to details.” The fact that these scams take place is still the scammer’s fault, not the victim’s.

[Scorpius]

Has anyone looked closely at that crest on the red stripe on the supposed Coast Guard cutter?

It says "Documentation Portal". I doubt they own that boat. Photoshop does it again!

If it is not a scam, it is awfully, awfully close. "Shady" would be an understatement.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Goodness this discussion again.

1) USCG documentation is 1 year from the date application, not the date of expiration. If you don't want to loose 3 months of fees, don't renew 3 months early. This has been the way it's been for decades and there are 100 threads on the subject.

2) A firm that offers a service to document your vessel for you is not a scam. It's a service. There are many such services, such as name changing services for new brides. Yes, you could document directly with the USCG. Choosing to go with a service doesn't make that service a scam.

Lack of situational awareness also does not make the business a scam. It simply means you are not paying attention to details. Though I'm sure that is their fault, right??

I think it's reasonable to consider this sort of offer a scam, albeit a legal one, because:

• they look and pretend to be official
• they're selling a service you don't need at an inflated price
• in some cases (eg the internet domain re-registration reported already) once they get their hooks in, it's hard to bust out of their system and the inflated rates.

Now, some may argue that making money by any legal means is ok... and it is, legally... but that doesn't make it ethical. I've mentioned to some here that capitalism is amoral, and some folks got all huffy... so it seems that ethics (or lack thereof) is still a factor to many.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by kayc

Guilty as charged about not paying attention to detail. My situational awareness was perhaps focused on more critical things.

Well look on the bright side, when its due next I am sure they will write to you

[Bycrick]

Capitalism isn’t immoral, but some capitalists are. )

[Adelie]

Capitalism is amoral.

[ParL]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I think it's reasonable to consider this sort of offer a scam, albeit a legal one, because:

• they look and pretend to be official
• they're selling a service you don't need at an inflated price
• in some cases (eg the internet domain re-registration reported already) once they get their hooks in, it's hard to bust out of their system and the inflated rates.

Now, some may argue that making money by any legal means is ok... and it is, legally... but that doesn't make it ethical. I've mentioned to some here that capitalism is amoral, and some folks got all huffy... so it seems that ethics (or lack thereof) is still a factor to many.

And this is the reason why discussing such things publicly is a good thing: sometimes you have to go by way of a private service company to access a government service, sometimes not. Why would "Shady Joe's Internet Registrar" mail me a renewal notice unless I had to pay them or lose my domain, even if I can't recall dealing with them before? Is there a fee my company needs to pay to be in "The Real Yellow Pages"? Is the only sane way to pay customs duty/VAT on my package from outside the EU to pay the shipper to do it for me?


We could discuss the politics and ethics of some business models until the Steller's sea cows come home, but I hope that most here would agree that giving people the basis to make an informed decision is a good thing.

[Quebramar]

FWIW you’re not alone, and it is definitely not ethical…

https://www.ripoffreport.com/report/...hunter-1503264

[Rubicon King]

We did too, the exact same one. it is a scam to us

Originally Posted by kayc

Morgan 382, LaPaz, MX
Pearson 36, Anacortes, WA
In August I received a USCG certificate of documentation expiration notice. Even though my current certificate was dated through 12/31/2021. Thinking perhaps they were dealing with staffing issues and just getting a jump on things, I sent my payment in in late August. They returned a new certicate that expires 9/30/22. I cantacted them about the error of their ways but was promptly rebuked for sending my payment in early. This was all done through something titled National Documentation Portal. Am I missing something. Seems very odd in the era of computers keeping track of things....

[CarinaPDX]

One might classify it as a legitimate service if they made it clear that they are a business offering a service. As it is they are doing everything they legally can to leave the false impression that they are the USCG, and as such they are scammers. IMHO they should be in jail as they are committing fraud, even if a careful person could discern the scam. It is simply intentional deception to make money, i.e. fraud. I wish there was something we could do to put them out of business.

Greg

[Quebramar]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I wish there was something we could do to put them out of business.

Greg

In the UK and in other European countries there are a few magazines that publish readers’ letters. That could be a way if it also exist in the US, such that more people are informed.

[StoneCrab]

Originally Posted by kayc

Morgan 382, LaPaz, MX
Pearson 36, Anacortes, WA
In August I received a USCG certificate of documentation expiration notice. Even though my current certificate was dated through 12/31/2021. Thinking perhaps they were dealing with staffing issues and just getting a jump on things, I sent my payment in in late August. They returned a new certicate that expires 9/30/22. I cantacted them about the error of their ways but was promptly rebuked for sending my payment in early. This was all done through something titled National Documentation Portal. Am I missing something. Seems very odd in the era of computers keeping track of things....

You were suckered in by a USCG mimic site. The correspondence and website look like the real deal but they overcharge you... they do the service but it increases your cost over dealing directly with USCG MMC.

Ask me how I know.

That little voice said wait a minute a few weeks after it was too late. I dug into it and confirmed what I said above.

[Grattaway]

These types of processes are getting worse and in some cases they are actually scams that just take the money and disappear -and they are sophisticated enough that its easy to trip up
Viagogo is one of the big ones - based in ethical Switzerland no less

Maybe we should teach ethics at college - or will that just make it even easier for the scammers!!
Precovid and when I travelled often for work I would use a credit card that I would cancel on my return to NZ and get a new one - it definitely reduced the scams and fraud