Do you use a Daytime Black ball at Anchor?

[fxykty]

Note that there’s no definition for ‘anchored’ nor ‘moored’ in the international rules other than the context that ‘anchored’ is used in the definition of ‘underway’ in rule 3 (i) “The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.”

So ‘moored’ must mean the same as ‘anchored’, as it certainly is not the same as ‘made fast to the shore’ (though perhaps that could be the definition for a mooring pile?) and definitely not ‘aground’.

I guess it’s the various rulings that interpret the definitions that should be referenced for further elucidation, but that’s beyond my library.

So I conclude that whether anchored or moored and under 50m in length you must display an all round white light. Anything else, unless aground, is optional.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Okay, two things with this Section 110 I have issues with.
1) This pertains to the USA, the home of the brave and the land of the free where people have feet and triple them to yards [no, not referring to the gardens] but don't know what a meter is. FYI: 12 meters is about 26.5 cubits or 65% of the distance between the pitcher's mound and home plate.

I thought meters were used to measure stuff like electricity or water. This side of the pond we use metres as a unit measurement of length. We allow the French to keep the original metal bar with marks showing a metre. It keeps them happy and is all part of our multi-cultural makeup as everyone in the EU lives in peace and harmony in one big super state

Pete

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Bottom line seems to be that a vessel less than 50m does not need to display a ball when anchored.

How on earth do you get that from the Rule as quoted?

There is NOTHING there to support your contention.


The only mention of a "vessel less than 50 m" is:



"A vessel of less than 50 m in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule."


i.e. one light instead of two. No mention of not displaying the ball.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Note that there’s no definition for ‘anchored’ nor ‘moored’ in the international rules other than the context that ‘anchored’ is used in the definition of ‘underway’ in rule 3 (i) “The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.”

So ‘moored’ must mean the same as ‘anchored’, as it certainly is not the same as ‘made fast to the shore’ (though perhaps that could be the definition for a mooring pile?) and definitely not ‘aground’.

I read it the other way. From my Guide Pocket Book to IRPCS

"The word underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore or aground"

So a vessel attached to a mooring bouy must be underway. After all what about a modern drill platform that uses dynamic mooring to remain stationary.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I thought meters were used to measure stuff like electricity or water. This side of the pond we use metres as a unit measurement of length. We allow the French to keep the original metal bar with marks showing a metre. It keeps them happy and is all part of our multi-cultural makeup as everyone in the EU lives in peace and harmony in one big super state

Pete

Great correction there Pete. When we Brexited it seems we also made some changes to our common language.

And since this thread is about COLREGs, we Yanks go about things a bit differently, for one we maneuver our vessels, we don't manoeuvre.

When we are fueling with gasoline we measure in gallons, not liters of petrol. And we would caution saying our fuel is flammable, highly flammable and never say, it is inflammable. It is true that ‘flammable’ and ‘inflammable’ have the same meaning of ‘highly combustible’. In English grammar, we frequently use the prefix ‘in-’ to negate something (‘visible’ becomes ‘invisible’, ‘capacity’ becomes ‘incapacity’, 'correct' becomes 'incorrect', 'appropriate' becomes 'inappropriate'). However, it is an intensive in the UK and not an expression of negation. Because of that widespread use of the prefix in- to negate words, inflammable is open to misinterpretation as if it were a negative word.
Inflammable really means able to be inflamed (inflame+able). Something which cannot be burned is nonflammable.

We raise and lower our colors. And we view movies at the theater. We center the tiller and our traveler while we reconnoiter. But dare say, our ropes, lines and sheets are made of similar fibers.

And a pound is a measure of weight and not a measure of fiat currency.
E.g. we price things as dollars per pound which also works when exchanging currency but it drives me crazy when trying to compare prices listed as pounds per kilogram.

The expression goes that a billion here and a billion there and soon you are talking about real money. Well the old UK meaning of a billion was a million million, or one followed by twelve noughts (1,000,000,000,000). The USA meaning of a billion is a thousand million, or one followed by nine noughts (1,000,000,000). ... If you used the term noughts to mean zeros we would think you're nutty. The UK government has been using the American meaning of billion since 1974 for the numbers it gives out.

Please don't take offense or be on the defense if I have the pretense to take license with our dialog.

I hope you will not be a skeptic and will consider us an unshakable good neighbors and recognize my sense of humor and please do not over analyze when I endeavor to apologize.

I suppose one could take this post as either likable or aging.

But to each their flavor.

Well it's time to find my routing and get back to spinning my disks.

Cheerio.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahaa!!!

A situation to warm Dockhead's heart!

An enormous superyacht called Aquijo, 87 m in length, Cayman I rego, has appeared in Hobart. Today she is anchored in the Derwent, only a half mile from us, so off we went to stickybeak.

And guess what? A proper anchor ball displayed, but no sign of an anchor chain to be seen... no bow roller, no sign that she's not underway, except for the ball. Thank God for the ball, for otherwise we might have rammed her with our dinghy... and I sure wouldn't want to have to pop for a new paint job for her!

Photo attached...

Jim

Please see post #612 for picture of vessel.


I suppose it's possible the Aquijo never anchors at all, just uses GPS stabilization, but she does swing to the breeze, as well--still could be done with computers, though. Hmmm. If that's the case, is she "under way", as her AIS relates? or "moored?" She appears to be stationary, but really at ~300 ft overall, it's hard to tell if she were making minute adjustments. She is displaying the anchor ball, even though her AIS broadcasts that she is "under way". A little mystery is good for our lives.

Ann

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I read it the other way. From my Guide Pocket Book to IRPCS

"The word underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore or aground"

So a vessel attached to a mooring bouy must be underway. After all what about a modern drill platform that uses dynamic mooring to remain stationary.

Seriously don't ever expect a vessel attached to a mooring buoy to be classified as underway and thus needing to "keep out of the way of other vessels" or to be exhibiting running lights. At best they could do is swing in a circle. A boat that is using propulsion to derive holding a fixed position [e.g., dynamic mooring] is underway, but if it fixes itself to the ground with a drill string then it is anchored because it is attached to the sea bottom. Sure it could untether itself from the drill string just as one could cut your rode or discharge your chain to uncouple from an anchor.

RULE 18
Responsibilities Between Vessels
Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible,
keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
(d)
(i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel
restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the
case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained
by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.
(ii) A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular
caution having full regard to her special condition.

RULE 23
Power-driven Vessels Underway
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one;
except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be
obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) sidelights; and
(iv) a sternlight.

RULE 25
Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars
(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) sidelights;
(ii) a stern light.
(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed
in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or
near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.
(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they
can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red
and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction
with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I read it the other way. From my Guide Pocket Book to IRPCS

"The word underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore or aground"

So a vessel attached to a mooring bouy must be underway. After all what about a modern drill platform that uses dynamic mooring to remain stationary.

A "mooring" is held in place by it's anchor therefore a boat tied to a mooring is anchored.

[JPA Cate]

I'd like say that the Aquijo, above mentioned, appears to be stationary, but there is no evidence of being attached to the ground.

She appears to be getting ready to get under way, stowing giant ribs in a large hold beneath the foredeck.

Ann

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

That's precisely the point. Colregs defines what you have to do when "at anchor". I don't believe that a moored boat is "at anchor", and neither does the dictionary.

COLREGs do not define the terms anchor or moor, it defines "underway" by use of the negative.

Rule 3: (i) The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.


The words anchor and moor are interrelated in their respective definitions.

Dictionary definitions, [likely there are many others of similar content]:

anchor
noun
1. a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to moor a vessel to the sea bottom

moor
verb
​
to attach a boat or ship to something on land or to the surface under the water to keep it in place.

verb (used with object)
to secure (a ship, boat, dirigible, etc.) in a particular place, as by cables and anchors, or by lines.
to fix firmly; secure.

verb (used without object)
to moor a ship, small boat, etc.
to be made secure by cables or the like.

noun
the act of mooring.

Hence the above definitions would be via word definition substitution of 'moor":

Anchor:
noun
1. a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to attach a boat or ship to something on land or to the surface under the water to keep it in place to the sea bottom.

2. a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to secure in a particular place, as by cables and anchors or by lines a vessel to the sea bottom.


Example of Phrases:

at anchor

(of a ship) moored by means of an anchor.

drop anchor

(of a ship) let down the anchor and moor.

[StuM]

If you are "med moored" in a harbour/marina are you anchored or moored?


How about at anchor in a bay with shorelines run to convenient rocks/trees etc?

[Jim Cate]

A bit of internet research reveals that Aquijo does have concealed anchor deployment hatches below the WL, so she was indeed anchored. The only way one could be assured of that was by the black ball.

This is obviously an extremely unusual case, but it does show that sometimes the ball is a useful and necessary indicator of status.

Meanwhile, I think all the silly argument about what "moored" means is wasted bandwidth. If you believe that the BB helps in revealing the status of an anchored vessel, why would it not similarly reveal that of a vessel lying to a mooring? Remember, not all mooring are in crowded fields, for there are plenty of them that are isolated, all by their lonesome selves.

As I've said, I don't feel that the BB is very helpful for small vessels, but the rule is clear: it is required in all but certain (rare) special anchorages (in the USA only) and I'll continue to hoist one. Other folks, ones who delight in "getting away with something", can flaunt their independence and daring by failing to follow the rules if they wish. I'll still try to avoid them.

Jim

[Training Wheels]

So, you avoid those who don’t follow the rules by not showing a bb, but it’s okay to show improper running lights on your dinghy? Do you keep a watch 24/7 at anchor? Do you sound your sound signals all night at anchor during times of restricted visibility? Those are rules, too. Or, are you delighted at “getting away with something”? [emoji15][emoji1]

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

So, you avoid those who don’t follow the rules by not showing a bb, but it’s okay to show improper running lights on your dinghy? Do you keep a watch 24/7 at anchor? Do you sound your sound signals all night at anchor during times of restricted visibility? Those are rules, too. Or, are you delighted at “getting away with something”? [emoji15][emoji1]

????????

Yes, I try to avoid... running into them. Wouldn't you?

Jim

[Training Wheels]

Sorry! Misunderstood that part, thought you meant avoiding them as in not liking them.