Additional Navigation Lights--Rule 27 etc.

[thinwater]

I see threads with hundreds of posts discussion what lights should be show when lying to a sea anchor, sleeping while singlehanding, or most recently, swimming while drifting. But what no one ever answers is...

1. Do they ever use these lights?
2. What product do they use?

I see nav lights for commercial boats that are intended for stacked (1 or 2 meter spacing, depending on boat size) installation, but nothing for smaller boats.


I wonder what the USCG actually expects, knowing that no recreational boat has the hardware to display anything other than normal running and anchor lights? I suspect that is all they expect, though if I were night diving on any regular basis, the correct lights seem smart.

[tkeithlu]

The Coast Guard is on a rant against additional lighting close to nav lights. That said, I'm a proponent of rope light outlining at least part of the boat at all times, largely because an anchor light alone is not a good source of depth perception and may be confused with shore lights or stars. The next event is a collision with a 40 foot sport fishing boat doing 30 knots trying to get home in the dark. The goal is safety, above and beyond the rules.

[thinwater]

From Rule 30:


(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.



So yes, so long as the additional lights do not interfere with the anchor light, more is better. But this does not apply to running lights.

[Jim Cate]

One of my pet peeves is fishing boats, typically trawlers in our area, whose working deck lights are so bright and so extensive that their running nav lights are very difficult to pick out from any distance, even with binoculars. Because of the individual variation in how those lights are disposed on the boat, working out their direction of travel and aspect is very hard. And when there are a gang of them in some loose formation, well, it has been awkward at times!

Grrr...

OH, don't forget running their green over white at all times, fishing or not...

Jim

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

One of my pet peeves is fishing boats, typically trawlers in our area, whose working deck lights are so bright and so extensive that their running nav lights are very difficult to pick out from any distance, even with binoculars. Because of the individual variation in how those lights are disposed on the boat, working out their direction of travel and aspect is very hard. And when there are a gang of them in some loose formation, well, it has been awkward at times!

Grrr...

OH, don't forget running their green over white at all times, fishing or not...

Jim

I was roundly abused by one once because he claimed I'd given him insufficient clearance whilst he was trawling. He dashed out on deck and pointed at his day marks then shook a fist at me.

Later on I looked him up on the jetty and asked him why he still had the trawling day marks up even though the boat was moored. His explanation was that they were welded in place and could not be taken down.

[slug]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I see threads with hundreds of posts discussion what lights should be show when lying to a sea anchor, sleeping while singlehanding, or most recently, swimming while drifting. But what no one ever answers is...

1. Do they ever use these lights?
2. What product do they use?

I see nav lights for commercial boats that are intended for stacked (1 or 2 meter spacing, depending on boat size) installation, but nothing for smaller boats.


I wonder what the USCG actually expects, knowing that no recreational boat has the hardware to display anything other than normal running and anchor lights? I suspect that is all they expect, though if I were night diving on any regular basis, the correct lights seem smart.

Status lights, hoisted on a halyard in the foretriangle ...not under command, restricted ability to maneuver , aground ....and not common on small craft

A mast head mounted strobe light is an effective way to signal “ attention “

I’ve used one for many years

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by slug

Status lights, hoisted on a halyard in the foretriangle ...not under command, restricted ability to maneuver , aground ....and not common on small craft

A mast head mounted strobe light is an effective way to signal “ attention “

I’ve used one for many years

These hanging lights are connected via a cable that just dangles there and swings around in the wind? It doesn't seem a robust solution.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by slug

Status lights, hoisted on a halyard in the foretriangle ...not under command, restricted ability to maneuver , aground ....and not common on small craft

A mast head mounted strobe light is an effective way to signal “ attention “

I’ve used one for many years

Unfortunately at least for the international crowd that's a violation of Rule 36:

RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention
...For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.

In the US that is a distress signal under Inland Rule 37:

RULE 37
Distress Signals
When a vessel is in distress and requires assistance she shall use or exhibit the signals described in Annex IV to these Rules. The distress signals for inland waters are the same as those displayed on the facing page for international waters with the following additional signal described: A high intensity white light flashing at regular intervals from 50 to 70 times per minute.

Not saying it isn't effective, but as far as the rules are concerned...

[slug]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Unfortunately at least for the international crowd that's a violation of Rule 36:



In the US that is a distress signal under Inland Rule 37:



Not saying it isn't effective, but as far as the rules are concerned...

I’m not concerned about rules...I’m worried about being hove to in the Western Approaches and being run down by a ship..

I’ll be lite up like a Christmas tree

[Reefmagnet]

Who the heck swims from a drifting boat at night? They'll have "crazy eyes" for sure!


To get into semantics, a drifting vessel, iirc, is still considered to be underway therefore must display regular navigation lights. There's possibly an argument to claim to be "not under command" but either way, you shouldn't show additional lighting as this defeats the whole purpose of having specific navigation light configurations to indicate size and status of a vessel.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Who the heck swims from a drifting boat at night? They'll have "crazy eyes" for sure!


To get into semantics, a drifting vessel, iirc, is still considered to be underway therefore must display regular navigation lights. There's possibly an argument to claim to be "not under command" but either way, you shouldn't show additional lighting as this defeats the whole purpose of having specific navigation light configurations to indicate size and status of a vessel.

Status lights indicate that you are having difficulty , trawling, fishing, captain is dead, rudder broken ...stay clear of me , I can’t comply with rules of the road

A white flare ..attention...a red flare ..I need assistance ...Are common defenses on small craft

I suppose some goofball stopped and swimming at sea could display a day shape or status light for fishing ...

The boat could claim “shark fishing “ during the accident investigation ...the swimmer was the bait used to attract the toothy great whites

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Who the heck swims from a drifting boat at night? They'll have "crazy eyes" for sure!


To get into semantics, a drifting vessel, iirc, is still considered to be underway therefore must display regular navigation lights. There's possibly an argument to claim to be "not under command" but either way, you shouldn't show additional lighting as this defeats the whole purpose of having specific navigation light configurations to indicate size and status of a vessel.

The COLRES indicate that additional lights are acceptable as long as they don’t obscure or cause confusion with regards to the regularly required navigation lights or impare the lookout.

“(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.”

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...gamated#rule20

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The COLRES indicate that additional lights are acceptable as long as they don’t obscure or cause confusion with regards to the regularly required navigation lights or impare the lookout.

“(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.”

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...gamated#rule20

I probably didn't make it clear that I was referring to addition navigation lighting. You'll most likely find that this clause is intended for the purpose of allowing for deck and interior lighting, rather than any sort of an endorsement for additional roll-you-own navigation lighting.

[Edward Bairstow]

Does anyone ever use the optional all around red-over-green lights for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”, as provided for in the Colregs?

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Edward Bairstow

Does anyone ever use the optional all around red-over-green lights for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”, as provided for in the Colregs?

I would love to. I looked into it whilst my mast was down, but it just wasn't practical buying, attaching, and wiring four new lights (2x red 180 degree, and 2x green 180 degree). I could not find any pre-made ones.