The new era on chainplates..

[SVNeko]

This is nothing new. Lots of boats, well, cats at least, have built-in composite chainplates.
Probably shouldn't even call them chainplates anymore. They are more like shroud terminals or something. There is no chain, and not even a plate.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Philosophical question: Should one let the chance of catastrophic damage from a collision at the chain plate area and subsequent awkward repair situation drive the design of a hull and rig? Or do the advantages of composite CPs outweigh that issue?

And does not the design of encapsulated metal chain plates (a la Island Packet) suffer from similar repair issues? We seem (at least some of us seem) to accept that risk.

To me, the risk of an expensive repair from a very unlikely collision is small. The probability of replacement issues in encapsulated metal CPs is very high, and even in non-encapsulated metal CPs the eventual replacement is costly and inconvenient.

It's an interesting tradeoff.

Jim

I tend to fall very heavily in the composite camp. Frankly if you have a colission hard enough to break composite chainplates you are probably already looking at a boat that is now scrap anyway. Think about it, you are out sailing when someone T-bones the boat right at the chainplates collapsing the hull. Most likely the rig comes down as a result. A broken mast alone is normally going to total the boat, but you also have a massive hole in the boat... right at the highest loaded section of the hull. Even with standard chainplates how much is that repair going to cost?

Compare that against the roughly 40% of dismastings that occur because of failed chainplates. Versus composits that have zero risk of corrosion failure.

maybe I just can't think of enough situations where a composite isn't likely to fail, but I need the scenarios I can imagine where they will the damage I said so large and so substantial that it becomes a sideline issue anyway.

[zeehag]

seems modern day is happeniong--but the disintigration of th e mast was real and happened 2013. th e name of the tri is sunday. a retired firefighter medic owns it.
i have seen no fg boats disintigrate from a lightinig strike--only know of th edisintigration oi fthe mast from the owners of the tri who were on board for the hit in cartagena.

as for chainplates--i am thinking until this is researched more intensively then i will stick with stainless.

[44'cruisingcat]

There are plenty of +20 year old boats with fibreglass chainplates. One I know suffered a lightning strike with no harm to the chainplates. That boats been cruising at least 10 years since.

Burned some small holes in the hull though.

I believe Lightwave 45s had fibreglass chainplates too.

[neilpride]

CF plates in the last CF cutters from BoB Perry..
Hanse is building in composite cf plates to.
And my 2 cents this is the future regarding chainplates since ss is a dangerous material in a boat,

[Snore]

Well I was going to question it.

But if they are good enough for Perry...

[barnakiel]

I am skeptic.

Look at this phrase: " ... All-composite shroud plates laminated to the hull’s ring frame keeps the water out, the rig up and the owner’s piece of mind intact...."

The first thing that catches the eye is an apparent disagreement btw the subject and the verb: plates/keeps. Can someone who cannot agree on the singular vs. plural build a hi-tec carbon chain plate?

My other observation is that such plates are built laminated in the mono process where the plates are actually parts of the hull rather than individual plates bonded to the hull. The material does not make this fact clear much as it can be read implicit.

And last thing is such plates are only fit for an eqauly hi-tec hull. This makes it less than 1% of all cruising boats.

Otherwise, I love them. Every time I walk by Rambler, a VOR or a Class 40 I look at those plates and salivate.

Cheers,
b.

[44'cruisingcat]

Does a boatbuilder need perfect grammar?

Our boat isn't high tech. Fibreglass and balsa cores.

Fibreglass chainplates work fine on this low tech platform.

[zeehag]

if i were to worship a human, bob perry and enzo ferrari would be them mr K ... but i am not that kinda person.
however, the shattering of that carbon fibre mast recently
was an eye opener.
oh well i guess i am religated to suffer the dangers of stainless steel as chainplates. oh the horror~~~
you guys test these new fangled cool looking sexy carbon fibre ones and get back with me.

[Benz]

I'm a big believer in eliminating metals, especially SS, wherever possible and practical. My next boat will definitely have composite attachments for the shrouds, though being integral to the hull 'chainplate' is the wrong word.
But for those that fear lightning strikes: you could make chainplates out of glass or Kevlar unis, or better yet, use synthetic shrouds and there's no worry that lightning will travel down the shroud to the chainplate at all.
Ben
zartmancruising dot com

[neilpride]

Zee, the whole swan line is done with composite chainplates, not a single failure...

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Does a boatbuilder need perfect grammar?

Our boat isn't high tech. Fibreglass and balsa cores.

Fibreglass chainplates work fine on this low tech platform.

Do not expect them on Bavarias any time soon. Low tech NOT = low tech.

It was not the boatbuilder that put the website together, much rather some sort of a web admin / developer / designer or something. Still, attention to DETAIL should not be expected where general things are allowed to be sloppy.

You are right this does not have to be carbon. I have seen such plates on a garage built Schionning too. Apparently not as hi-tec as some builders want to sell it.

b.

[rbrentp]

When I did the rerig on my 40 year old Prout I found four chain plates with rust hairlines. Close enough to bad for me. I replaced the 1/4inch thick plates with 3/8s figure they should be good at least as long as the originals.

How many Cats have actually capsized versus the reputation?

Time and science move forward and they try to build everything to be failure proof and idiot proof. I think the real question for cruisers is do we trust the their idiots to be smarter than ours. Cruisers like to be able to put hands on things and tinker, tweak and jury rig in emergencies.

Doesn't matter what the chain plates are made of, placing them out of site makes me cringe. I can't see the pistons in my car's engine but I have pulled plugs and scoped them in the past....just because I could. In ten more years no one will question integral attachment points, but to be fair I will prefer giving them more practice before out of side is indeed out of mind.

[a64pilot]

No reason at all that composite chainplates are not as good or better than metal ones. I believe though that to be done correctly they would most likely be laid up with the hull. I don't think repair is likely, replacement more likely as they would need to be very glass rich uni directional glass, and likely with a bronze or other type of metal bushing to accept a clevis pin.
Before someone says glass won't take the continual load cycles and isn't flexible enough for it, look at older Corvettes, that had a fiberglass rear spring for decades, may still for all I know.

[a64pilot]

What holds helicopter blades on, yet allows them to flap, and lead / lag etc are called TT straps or strap packs.
Originally almost always Stainless steel, however I believe they are now being made out of composite material for greater strength, greater life and resistance to fatigue and corrosion.
The centripetal force of a helicopter blades is measured in tons, its very high, as high as chainplates, with of course catastrophic failure modes.