Settee dimensions reconsidered

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Not sure about Australia, but in the US, just about every foam supplier offered a cutting option to sculpt the foam to shape. We sent in the dimensions for the back (it was actually 4" bottom tapered to 1" at the top with a 16" height) and they cut the foam with a bandsaw to perfection. The service here added only $20 to the cost, and it makes the sewing project so much easier when the base is uniform. ......

Matt

Yes Matt, they could cut that to my required curved shape as well, but in my recollection a lot more than $20, and that was ~20 years ago, and then I was faced with making the coverings in that curved shape... and likely the need to add buttons, all too hard for me.
I agree with you not to skimp on quality of foam.

[CarlF]

Yes, you'll want deeper than 16" but not so deep that your spouse can't reach the back with their feet confortably on the floor.

If you look at a really well designed armchair, desk chair or car seat, you'll also find lumbar support in the lower back. It makes all the difference.

What we did is have the back cushion at 90 degrees (no slope) for the first four inches then slope back.

We accomplished this all with foam. The back cushions start at 7" thick for the bottom 4" then tapers to be 3.75" thick at the top which are high enough to fully support the shoulders. Short back cushions that end in mid back are terrible. The foam supplier was glad to shape the foam for a nominal cost.

By making the back thickness from foam, removing them for sleeping makes the berth 7" wider.

If the settee will not usually be used for sleeping, you could sloping the seat foam back about 1"-2" over its depth. Again, all non-dining chairs have a sloping seat. A slight slope will not make it uncomfortable to use as a berth. But not maybe people go to this length - although I did

Get samples of different densities of foam and play with it. The seats and back will usually need different firmness. Often two firmnesses glued together help. In addition, a 1" layer of "supersoft" foam on top makes the cushion feel great. And if you want the top of the cushion to be a bit rounded like a sofa, put some "batting" in. This also keeps the fabric taught and neater. Test your foam in a cloth case. Foam feels very different in a case than just sitting on it.

Here's a good place to get different types and densities of foam to play with. Stick with the higher quality foams. Free shipping. https://www.foambymail.com/foam-type...-cushions.html

[Spot]

Matt, did you ever finish the settee project?

I am working on plans for new cushions and covers on a refit of a trailer sailor. Since there is not room to add and add foam if things are not right, I want to spec it out right to start. Currently leaning toward 3" high density extra firm (2.8# density, 60# IFD) for the side berths and the same 3" + 1" soft for the v-berth. I am not a small person so 'bottoming out' is a concern.

I have read the Sailrite stuff, both on selection and construction, quite a nice body of work. I was hoping to hear from people who have 'been there and done that' so to speak without the commercials. The local shop that sells fancy Sunbrella ends has lower end foam, the place with better foam has plainer fabrics and shorter foam pieces. Online multiple sources is the best pricing. Sailrite would be one-stop shopping but not the lowest prices.

I have been going back to the other Matt's suggestions:

Originally Posted by funjohnson

We were height limited in the lower settee so only went with 4" total, but were able to do 5" in the upper. The base foam is of 3-4" of 2.8lb density with a ILD of 50 and a 1" topper of "super soft" with 1.8lb density and ILD of 12. Make sure it's a high resilient foam so it doesn't sag in a few years. It sounds like you want firmer, but these were the specs recommended to mimic higher end furniture.

I am also wondering if Sunbrella can be replaced by other water-washable synthetics, surprised to see how many 'outdoor' fabrics are dry clean only ?!?

I could be overthinking this too. Maybe I need to start making some smaller ones, as practice and temporary seating, and go from there.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by GILow

Gord May,
You nailed it with the observation that dining and lounging are two different beasts. Thankfully, these will be almost entirely for dining so I will lean in that direction for my dimensions.

Thanks also for your excellent research skills, those linked documents were very helpful.

Matt

Gord May is KING! Yah Gord May!

Boy did we miss you while your computer was on the fritz.

Warmly,
LittleWing77
(aka Convenor of the Gord May Fan Club)

Oh, and Matt, make sure to include room for those teens in your setee dimensions... or are they still out on deck in those hammocks? Heehee.

Oh, this is a necrothread. Whoops!

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Spot

Matt, did you ever finish the settee project?

I am working on plans for new cushions and covers on a refit of a trailer sailor. Since there is not room to add and add foam if things are not right, I want to spec it out right to start. Currently leaning toward 3" high density extra firm (2.8# density, 60# IFD) for the side berths and the same 3" + 1" soft for the v-berth. I am not a small person so 'bottoming out' is a concern.

I have read the Sailrite stuff, both on selection and construction, quite a nice body of work. I was hoping to hear from people who have 'been there and done that' so to speak without the commercials. The local shop that sells fancy Sunbrella ends has lower end foam, the place with better foam has plainer fabrics and shorter foam pieces. Online multiple sources is the best pricing. Sailrite would be one-stop shopping but not the lowest prices.

I have been going back to the other Matt's suggestions:



I am also wondering if Sunbrella can be replaced by other water-washable synthetics, surprised to see how many 'outdoor' fabrics are dry clean only ?!?

I could be overthinking this too. Maybe I need to start making some smaller ones, as practice and temporary seating, and go from there.

Here is our go to store for foamFoam Factory in Michigan (www.foambymail). A nice selection of foam types and densities.

IMO wouldn't want the very expensive sunbrella for interior cushions and would look around to find a better upholstery grade fabric w/good wear characteristics. Most of the better upholstery materials can easily be spot cleaned w/a small cleaner like this one.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Spot

Matt, did you ever finish the settee project?

I am working on plans for new cushions and covers on a refit of a trailer sailor. Since there is not room to add and add foam if things are not right, I want to spec it out right to start. Currently leaning toward 3" high density extra firm (2.8# density, 60# IFD) for the side berths and the same 3" + 1" soft for the v-berth. I am not a small person so 'bottoming out' is a concern.

I have read the Sailrite stuff, both on selection and construction, quite a nice body of work. I was hoping to hear from people who have 'been there and done that' so to speak without the commercials. The local shop that sells fancy Sunbrella ends has lower end foam, the place with better foam has plainer fabrics and shorter foam pieces. Online multiple sources is the best pricing. Sailrite would be one-stop shopping but not the lowest prices.

I have been going back to the other Matt's suggestions:



I am also wondering if Sunbrella can be replaced by other water-washable synthetics, surprised to see how many 'outdoor' fabrics are dry clean only ?!?

I could be overthinking this too. Maybe I need to start making some smaller ones, as practice and temporary seating, and go from there.

Yes, the project is finished, and it went well, though I am having some misgivings about the lighter colour fabric I chose. It is stressful to live with and I will remake the covers in a darker colour when I get some time. I’ve got pretty good at sewing box cushion covers after finding a terrific video on YouTube. For this reason alone I am happy I went with conventional upholstery fabric, it is cheap enough to not demolish the wallet if you change your mind later.

And regarding the foam choice, I went with the super high density tough stuff for the bases, and I am very glad I did. It is very comfortable to sit on and is showing no signs of deforming from the not inconsiderable load I place on it when seated.

The backs are made from slices of IKEA mattresses which was by far the cheapest source of foam I could find.

Overall, the dimensions that felt best to me ended up being 500 mm front to back on the base structure, set 450 mm above the floor, with 100 mm thick base cushions and 75 mm back cushions. The back angle was something under 5 degrees, but I can’t remember now, I just played around with some plywood and some clamps until I was comfortable.

This was all for the dining settee, which can seat about 5 people at a pinch, leaving the companionway side free for two more people if they don’t mind standing. (The whole settee is elevated nearly 300 mm above the main cabin sole.)

For the two single lounge chairs the bases are about 700 mm front to back, with 130 mm thick cushion bases and 100 mm thick backs. Angled a fair bit over 5 degrees, again, I just played around to find what was comfy.

I must check these numbers against GordMay’s links to see how they compare.

Good luck with the project. When I consider that I constructed my entire settee and lounges from scratch, including timber, epoxy, foam, cloth and steel for less than someone here at my marina paid for a few of their old cushions to be re-upholstered I feel doubly happy about the work involved.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

[B][I]...
LittleWing77
(aka Convenor of the Gord May Fan Club)

Oh, and Matt, make sure to include room for those teens in your setee dimensions... or are they still out on deck in those hammocks? Heehee.

Oh, this is a necrothread. Whoops!

a) can we have a GM fan club tee shirt? It should have the words “Just the facts” and a list of Google’s advanced search syntax.
b) sadly, due to social distancing, no teenagers on the boat. (At least, that’s what I’ve told them.)
c) we should all revive necrothreads from time to time to let people know the outcomes. After all, some good advice is given and it’s nice to let people know it has been heeded.

Perhaps a “Revive a necrothread” TShirt too?

[Spot]

Thanks Matt. Your retrospect is awesome, including what you did, what you liked about it, and what you'd do differently.

Littlewing, necro-thread? LOL, this one is a newborn, not even a year old!

I have been searching for data points on foam stiffness. I am convinced of high density and high resilience but stuck between firm (45#) and extra firm (60-70#). Since I am 'above average' for height and weight am leaning toward 3" / 75mm extra firm as I do not have head room to double stack on the side berths and the same 3" / 75mm in the v-berth with an extra 1" / 25mm of something softer (30#) on the top. In my case each area is sitting and sleeping although the sides would be seating more often.

[GILow]

Gee, I've thought about the decision you face and it's a hard one. Personally, I'd go with thinner and firmer foam because it will be better to sit on and I prefer to sleep on a very firm mattress anyway. If you don't like a firm mattress it's going to be a tricky compromise and you'll probably be better off aiming for the middle ground.

Good luck with the project.

[Spot]

Thanks Matt. I just ordered 2 pcs each of the 2 foams 3" 75mm extra firm and 1" 25mm medium to give a final backside and hipside test on before proceeding. If it checks out I can finish the side berths and order the rest for the v-berth.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yes, the project is finished, and it went well, though I am having some misgivings about the lighter colour fabric I chose. It is stressful to live with and I will remake the covers in a darker colour when I get some time. I’ve got pretty good at sewing box cushion covers after finding a terrific video on YouTube. For this reason alone I am happy I went with conventional upholstery fabric, it is cheap enough to not demolish the wallet if you change your mind later.

You've done really well and you deserve to be congratulated!

Sometimes you can be lucky! I bought myself a 15 yr old light truck (1 tonne) with low klms from a car yard and it just so happened to be next door to an upholsterer. I wondered in and had a chat and yes, he was interested in my project. He advised all the acceptable measurements for settees and seats at the table as well as types of foams for all the bunks, settee and chairs. He did all the sewing with zips for all cushions.

The icing on the cake was that he offered me half price on all materials left over from previous jobs. I had a choice of about 40 different materials. (He pointed out that one material was about $60/meter!)

Best wishes with your project.