Putting LEDs into old nav light housings

[Bycrick]

The various suppliers of LED light "bulbs" will certainly have something that will fit whatever socket you have on the boat. Can you jury-rig this and make it sort-of work? Of course. Will any kind of LED "replacement bulb" produce some light? Of course. Will it use less power than an incandescent bulb? Certainly. Is it as bright as it should be? Maybe. Will you be able to see it where you should and not see it where you shouldn’t? Who knows. Will it be "legal?" It depends. Will it emit enough radio interference to degrade your VHF and/ot AIS? Maybe. Can the old fixture leak as well with a new LED bulb as with an old incandescent? You bet.

I’ve seen two boats in the last 5 years with the side lights on the wrong side. The owners had no idea. So a lot of sloppy, inadequate, poorly done stuff appears to "work" just fine.

[Spot]

https://archive.org/details/gov.law.abyc.A-16.1997

I opted for 'warm white' 2950 K rather than the higher color temp 'bluer' ones. Turns out the test for chromacity uses a 2856 K source or a 'seasoned' bulb designed for the fixture.

There is also reminder in there to watch for voltage drop (no more than 3%) per ABYC E-09.

Unless you can find product literature for the original housings with a parts list, any replacement bulb or socket is going to be sort of a guess.

As far as sockets go, it looks like the originals were put together to elevate the bulb filament into the center of the fixture. This place looks good and 'lampy':
https://www.grandbrass.com/item/soh0...ouble_contact/

Or forget it all and buy a shiny set of new ones and sell off the vintage ones online. I know a guy who thinks they're pretty cool...

And think they used to use fire burning inside lanterns for this...

PS for those keeping logs, is time for lights on and lights off a daily log entry?

[Nauti-Nauti]

Keep looking for the parts. They are out there. I.E., while in Singapore, pre Covid...there is an electronics building there of several stories of everything you could possibly look for or need including LED's parts, components, etc. It is a collection of "shops" and kiosks. Good luck on you search.

[Bycrick]

If it’s important to keep up the character and ambience of the boat, then it might be worth the work to "build" a nav light that actually performs as it should as a safety device.

But often, this is just an exercise in "can I get some light as cheaply as possible."

For most people, on most boats, it’s more time and cost effective to buy an approved LED light fixture, if you really want a proper NAV light. If you just want A light, then almost anything will work.

[Steve DAntonio]

Keep in mind, once modified these will not be USCG approved. Nav lights are approved as a complete unit, light source and fixture. Once modified, that approval no longer exists.

I realize it has become very popular to do this, however, this includes retrofitting existing incandescent bulbs with LEDs, in spite of LED replacement bulb manufacturers' claims to the contrary. You may not care, no CG vessel is ever going to pull you over and cite you for this violation, however, if you are involved in a nighttime collision, nav lights will be scrutinized.

[NNBill]

I wouldn't do it.
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/D...lerts/1015.pdf

They may work fine, look nice and bright, BUT if something should happen and the layers find out your running lights are no longer certified, they will hang you out to dry.

[jalmberg]

Our 1976 sailboat also had cool running lights. I replaced the incandescent bulbs with led replacements. At the same time, I cleaned up the bulb sockets and replaced some of the old wiring.

It would have been tricky to replace the sockets, but they were in restorable shape. I suggest you take everything apart and try to clean or repair the existing sockets if at all possible.

It was non-trivial to find led replacement bulbs that worked. It looked simple enough to to find a double contact bayonet bulb of the right size, but the first ones I bought didn’t work. I had to try a couple more before I found a compatible bulb.

Worth all the effort because now the lights are twice as bright and use far less energy. And they still look great!

I should mention that we also have a newish tricolor at the mast head that we use 98% of the time. The old lights are for show and as backup if the tricolor fails. We have also used the deck-level old lights once or twice in harbors where I worried that speeding powerboats wouldn’t look up to see our masthead light. It’s handy to have both sets of lights.

[Amapola]

We replaced ours with LEDs and love the results. It wasn't that difficult.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by jamhass

LED replacements that fit the base are great for CLEAR lenses. However...
Colored lenses need LEDs specifically matched to the color of the lens.

This is because LEDs emit light in a VERY narrow spectrum, and if that spectrum does not match the color of the lens, the brightness of the resulting light is very much reduced. LED manufacturers offer specifically matched LEDs for many popular fixtures, but maybe not for older fixtures. As a result you could spend a lot of $$$ trying to find an LED that really works in your fixture. You will be likely better off using LEDs in the clear ones, and staying with incandescents in the colored ones.

Very very untrue, unless used some strange out of this world LED. And can't understand why recommend anyone using incandescent bulbs and draw 3X the power...

Also, the bow nav lights get really humid inside, no matter how well sealed, and the socket contacts are oxidized and increase resistance if not completely disintegrated. So eventually it took me few minutes and $5 to make my own fully molded waterproof with 4200, 2W LEDs, with a long enough pigtail to connect to the lines under the deck.

Much brighter with less than 50% of the energy with expected few good years of life.

[Bycrick]

It’s less a question of the color of the LED, which is fixed by the physical characteristics. A red traffic signal LED is almost exactly 625 nm, for example. The problem is the "red" filter which has unknown absorption characteristics, because they weren’t important for its designed purpose of filtering white light to "red." Yes, one can buy dichroic filters designed for filtering LED light, but they aren’t cheap. If you want to play with building your own, order LEDs of the right color and use a white lens.

Of course you can make a light source. It’s cheap, too. But it isn’t legal. Maybe you’ll never get caught, but ......

I haven’t seen any post here that talked about the wonders of using incandescent bulbs for nav lights. They draw a lot of power, by comparison, and they’re often hard to seal well. The question is: should you build your own illegal nav light using a home-brew or after-market LED light source, or buy a good nav light?

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

It’s less a question of the color of the LED, which is fixed by the physical characteristics. A red traffic signal LED is almost exactly 625 nm, for example. The problem is the "red" filter which has unknown absorption characteristics, because they weren’t important for its designed purpose of filtering white light to "red." Yes, one can buy dichroic filters designed for filtering LED light, but they aren’t cheap. If you want to play with building your own, order LEDs of the right color and use a white lens.

Of course you can make a light source. It’s cheap, too. But it isn’t legal. Maybe you’ll never get caught, but ......

I haven’t seen any post here that talked about the wonders of using incandescent bulbs for nav lights. They draw a lot of power, by comparison, and they’re often hard to seal well. The question is: should you build your own illegal nav light using a home-brew or after-market LED light source, or buy a good nav light?

You could read just that in my post above yours here...

And I'm not sure what's this strange story about "illegal" nav lights... I'm not repowering a light house or a traffic light.

My original nav lights are of the best German (Hella) quality money can buy, but their location and years of abuse in docking, UV and heavy weather took their toll. So yes, I can buy a new top notch new nav lights for ~$120/pair or replace the bulbs with $10 sealed LEDs. - I have my priorities in wasting the $$.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Of course you can make a light source. It’s cheap, too. But it isn’t legal. Maybe you’ll never get caught, but ......

Isn't it? Or is it that manufacturers are required to use the certified lights, but a boat owner may do as he chooses so long as the light meets the required specifications (visibility, chromaticity, and angles)?

I find it funny but not entirely surprising that in some BoatUS testing some years back, the small non-certified light they included apparently outperformed all of the certified lights. (link) Of course, much has changed in the LED world over the past decade.

I don't think it should be too difficult to meet the required standards, so long as someone is aware of the requirements and bothers to test that they are met. For a modern boat I likely wouldn't bother, but for an ancient vessel it might seem reasonable and a fun project.

[Aquasition]

Originally Posted by jamhass

LED replacements that fit the base are great for CLEAR lenses. However...
Colored lenses need LEDs specifically matched to the color of the lens.

This is because LEDs emit light in a VERY narrow spectrum, and if that spectrum does not match the color of the lens, the brightness of the resulting light is very much reduced. LED manufacturers offer specifically matched LEDs for many popular fixtures, but maybe not for older fixtures. As a result you could spend a lot of $$$ trying to find an LED that really works in your fixture. You will be likely better off using LEDs in the clear ones, and staying with incandescents in the colored ones.

Yes - THIS! Be VERY careful that your setup meets standards and is compliant with local rules/laws.

Here's one article that goes into it a bit:
https://www.boatingmag.com/led-navig...-safety-alert/

There's another I read some time ago that I can't seem to find right now that discusses the different wavelengths and how they're affected and filtered by various lenses and how it reduces the distance from which they're visible, and that different parts of the color spectrum behave differently. If I locate the study I'll update my reply.

[carstendenmark]

Aquasition, your link to boatingmag clears up most of the misunderstandings of the "wonders" of LED's.
Respectable companies makes a note, when their LED's are not approved for navigation use, but most don't.

OP, fit your nice old lamps with the correct incandescent bulbs.
Then you have the correct and approved navigation light.

I have the good old clip-on stainless steel Hella's on my old Maxi 87, so I bought 10 bulbs (minimum order), 30cd, 25W at 12V.
(The 30cd comes by using a special gas in the bulb.)
1000 hours of life (how much do you need ?)
https://danlamp.com/sm-navigation-lamp-12v-30cd-25w/
These bulbs are handmade in DENMARK (believe it or not), and approved.
I think they only make a few batches a year now, so you can send your request to jh@danlamp.dk

If you want to save power, and get more brightness, Hella is the only company that provides approved LED navigation lamps for leisure yachts up to 20 meters, as far as I know.
For power saving, and at sea, you can put a 360 deg. Hella Navi-LED Trio in the mast top. It has anchor light as well. Check out Hella's homepage.
I will fit one at next mast overhaul, and I can then remove the stern 225 deg navigation light (the white, for motoring) at the mast front. Then tacking of the genoa will be much easier.

[Spot]

Carstendenmark-

Would not the 'special gas' bulbs also be a modification to your old Hella fixtures, unless the fixture was tested by Hella with those specific bulbs?

What is the rule in your area for 'steaming' lights?