Let's Talk Seacock

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tsenator

This Groco Ball valve was left in the open position for the season . Not very "solid and reliable condition" It was stiff when I went to close it for the winter. Broke off nub that you screw into for the handle. Pretty lame

This happens when you put force onto the handle in the wrong direction.

I understand that access is limited and your left arm was in an awkward position and this easily causes these problems. The handle attachment is simply not designed for that and neither is it on any other valve, metal or plastic.

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This happens when you put force onto the handle in the wrong direction.

I understand that access is limited and your left arm was in an awkward position and this easily causes these problems. The handle attachment is simply not designed for that and neither is it on any other valve, metal or plastic.

No. It wasn't being forced in the wrong direction. It was situated such that it could only be turned one way anyway, there was a wall in place if you tried to turn it the other way. Either way that little nub should not have broken off with as little force as I was applying. (And no it did not have any crevice corrosion or prior cracking, the metal was bright and shiny and clean as a whistle It just broke.)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tsenator

No. It wasn't being forced in the wrong direction. It was situated such that it could only be turned one way anyway, there was a wall in place if you tried to turn it the other way. Either way that little nub should not have broken off with as little force as I was applying. (And no it did not have any crevice corrosion or prior cracking, the metal was bright and shiny and clean as a whistle It just broke.)

No, not turning to close instead of open… sideways. Thousands of boats use that without snapping the shaft.

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, not turning to close instead of open… sideways. Thousands of boats use that without snapping the shaft.

No thats not what happened. It was being turned in the correct axis. Also if it was forced excessively or 'sideways' that 'metal nub' that broke off would be twisted or bent and the handle would have been bent even just a little. None of that occurred. It was a clean break, almost like it was subpar brittle metal at that nub. Should not have happened.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, not turning to close instead of open… sideways. Thousands of boats use that without snapping the shaft.

Yep.

Same with bolts, nuts, screw heads, etc. Proper leverage is key.
Sometimes, just walking away and returning with a better attitude makes all the difference.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Yep.

Same with bolts, nuts, screw heads, etc. Proper leverage is key.
Sometimes, just walking away and returning with a better attitude makes all the difference.

Yes, unfortunately it’s often difficult to accept a mistake.

BTW, I read that they had fixed the handle problem for Marelon valves… this is true but they did so with a different design valve, while still selling the flawed one. They must make a fortune on those that they don’t want to give up.

But for that design valve/seacock that is sold everywhere, it was not fixed. If you buy Forespar, you need their ABYC approved line.

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes, unfortunately it’s often difficult to accept a mistake. .

lol. ��. Yeah ok ….. I pressed down more than 2 lbs with a stuck Groco valve �� lol. ��. Too funny. ��

I’ve been boating over 50 years and owning my own boats for over 30 years and have been Customer Technical editor for over a decade for a very popular boat for a very large US boat Manufacturer…….. I’ve seen a lot from that, from crumbling dezincified valves to blown out PYi shaft seals torn on others boats to weak metal in throw out bearing washers in Hurth transmissions and everything in between. I have been exposed to issues in not only my boat but thousands of other people that came to me for help and advice

There was no “mistake” made other than expecting a supposedly high quality brand be a lot more robust than it is !! Not saying it happens often but to say it doesn’t happen is foolhardy and ignorant.


Ps that Forespar Marelon valve with the more robust handles have been around as long or longer than the ones where they have had issues in the past with handles breaking at a similar spot as this issue. The “Good” Forespar Marelon seacocks are the “OEM” version of Forespar valves. You likely won’t be able to walk into a Chandlery and buy one there, most likely you will have to special order one online.

[Oxibstro]

Nice job on freeing up the pooper valve! As for replacing through hulls and seacocks, it's good to keep an eye on them for signs of wear or corrosion. If they start to show any signs of deterioration, it's best to replace them sooner rather than later to avoid potential issues. As for replacement options, bronze or Marelon seacocks are popular choices. Just make sure to do thorough research and possibly consult with a marine expert for the best fit for your boat. Happy boating!

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Depends on whether you're a member of The Cult.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ll-267705.html


The "gold standard" has, traditionally, been flanged seacocks through-bolted to the hull, or attached using studs embedded in the hull. Bring money, and allow a couple of hours of quality time with epoxy and G10 board per seacock. Budget for some extra drill bits and hole saws, the G10 will dull them after a couple of cuts.

Note that this sea cock has 1/4 NPT ports at the ball. Replace one with a SS grease zerk to be able to grease easily between the seals.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Note that this sea cock has 1/4 NPT ports at the ball. Replace one with a SS grease zerk to be able to grease easily between the seals.

I would caution against that.
Those plugs are for draining the water out of the ball when it's in the closed position in freezing weather to avoid rupturing the valve.
If the valve is open and you start pumping in grease you can easily blow out the seals.
And if the valve is closed you do nothing more than pack the hole in the ball with grease,,, and then blow the seals.
On real tapered-plug seacocks that can be done, after first loosening the tapered plug and backing it out of the tapered bore a little.

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by tsenator

No thats not what happened. It was being turned in the correct axis. Also if it was forced excessively or 'sideways' that 'metal nub' that broke off would be twisted or bent and the handle would have been bent even just a little. None of that occurred. It was a clean break, almost like it was subpar brittle metal at that nub. Should not have happened.

The idea of ​​using composite valves for oxidation resistance may be a solution. However, tiny living organisms living in the sea stick to any surface they find without distinguishing material. I would guess that the inner surfaces of composite valves are not as smooth as the 316 stainless valve ball surface. Therefore, there is a tighter adhesion for organisms living in seawater. If you do not forget the valve in the closed position and move it occasionally, they will be cleaned as well as from the surface of the valve ball. This is why your valve has difficulty opening and closing. There must be a solid connecting rod between the valve handle and the valve ball. When choosing a valve, it is important to make sure that the shaft is thick enough and is not made of a weak metal such as brass.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by tsenator

lol. ��. Yeah ok ….. I pressed down more than 2 lbs with a stuck Groco valve �� lol. ��. Too funny. ��

I’ve been boating over 50 years and owning my own boats for over 30 years and have been Customer Technical editor for over a decade for a very popular boat for a very large US boat Manufacturer…….. I’ve seen a lot from that, from crumbling dezincified valves to blown out PYi shaft seals torn on others boats to weak metal in throw out bearing washers in Hurth transmissions and everything in between. I have been exposed to issues in not only my boat but thousands of other people that came to me for help and advice

There was no “mistake” made other than expecting a supposedly high quality brand be a lot more robust than it is !! Not saying it happens often but to say it doesn’t happen is foolhardy and ignorant.

Did you contact Groco? As a customer technical editor, I would think you would be naturally curious about why the handle shaft broke.
The fact that the piece that broke is brass and cut on both sides may suggest that it did exactly what it was designed to do.

The Groco valves that mount to the hull are, in fact, much more robust. But when you turn the valve, you apply pressure to a hull-mounted valve. The IBV Valve is connected to a threaded pipe, meaning that you're applying pressure to a threaded pipe that may break if too much pressure is applied.

You may be right that you didn't apply pressure at an incorrect angle, but I think it's near impossible that you broke it with 2 lbs. of pressure.
Just as an example, you probably exert more than 2 lbs of force turning the handle on your closet or head door.

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Did you contact Groco? As a customer technical editor, I would think you would be naturally curious about why the handle shaft broke.
The fact that the piece that broke is brass and cut on both sides may suggest that it did exactly what it was designed to do.

The Groco valves that mount to the hull are, in fact, much more robust. But when you turn the valve, you apply pressure to a hull-mounted valve. The IBV Valve is connected to a threaded pipe, meaning that you're applying pressure to a threaded pipe that may break if too much pressure is applied.

You may be right that you didn't apply pressure at an incorrect angle, but I think it's near impossible that you broke it with 2 lbs. of pressure.
Just as an example, you probably exert more than 2 lbs of force turning the handle on your closet or head door.

Yeah , I was probably exaggerating some, probably more than 2 ft-lbs LOL. But I will tell you this, I have pushed down or pulled up on the handles of my seacocks/ball valves over the years with A LOT MORE force than I did with this one and never had anything like this happen. And this Groco ball valve is not even that old, especially when compared to so many others . I thought about contacting Groco but sometimes I get so busy I wonder if its worth the effort. I still might do it when I get a moment. Maybe this is their "Shear Pin" as a design.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by tsenator

I thought about contacting Groco but sometimes I get so busy I wonder if its worth the effort.

You should. And please revisit this thread if you do and let us know what they said.

Maybe this is their "Shear Pin" as a design.

Yep, that's what I was thinking

[akopac]

My 2 cents. Bronze isn’t a lifetime material or valve. I just replaced these 45 year old valves/skin fittings with Trudesign composite skin fittings, valves, and load collars. Yes they were bonded… just end of life. I lapped them, cleaned and greased them all every haulout, and worked them occasionally. I got my 45 years out of them. I’m in New Zealand so Tru Design was a good option. Very well designed system and excellent materials.